GC-MS purchase

[orcicdejan]

Hello!
Our laboratory wish to purchase a GC-MS system, which would be used for enviro analysis (air - workplace, emission, immission, and wastewater). Having a very tight bugdet, we want to buy instrument with best (performance+tech support)/price ratio. So far, these instruments have been offered to us:

Varian - Saturn 2200
Shimadzu - QP2010S and QP2010Plus
Agilent - 7890-5975
ThermoElectron (still waiting for preliminary offer)

So far, I've worked with various Agilent instruments only, so I prefer them, but don't want to be too close-minded (and, also, they're quite expensive). As for Varian instrument, 2200 is ion-trap, so I'm not very sure if it's usable for this kind of analysis at all. I've heard Shimadzu instruments are quite good, and cheaper than Agilent, but their tech support in our country is not overly qualified (as opposed to Agilent).

Which instrument would you recommend (or not recommend), based on your experience?
Thank you in advance!

[lipidanalyzer]

I think one of the most important question to chose a GC/MS is to know if you want MS detection or MS/MS detection. Saturn 2200 is an ion trap system and Agilent is a single quad. If you want to identify substances using NIST library and you don't want more structural information single quad system is an appropiate system for your purposes. If you need/want structural information you may chose Varian.

I've been working with two Agilent systems (6850 FID and 6890 MSD) for 3 years and they are fantastic equipments. I think the "Chemstation" software is the best for GC/MS systems (I see the varian system too). And Varian representatives admits that Aglient CG is newest an better. Recently my group has purchased another GC system and we chose Agilent (no much price differences among Varian and Agilent in Spain). I can't provide expierence about Shimadzu or Thermo. I can't contact with them to get offers.

Like you, I don't want to be close-minded in the moment to decide an important purchase. But after examinate various systems and to see the two equipments I return to the opinion that Agilent is the best option.

Try to get more information about Thermo or Shimadzu

[leadazide]

I know that Thermos Focus GC is one of the cheapest GC available... And if you don't need anything fancy like room for two columns or detectors then this is a very good GC.. And when you what an MS then you proablely won't need any other detectors then the MS... And their detectors are also very nice.. I don't know the single Quads that well so I won't come with an opinion, but if you could find the money they have just released a triplequad for GC.. It's their Quantum series that they have for LC... And as far as I could see it's interchangable between GC and LC so if you at somepoint need to switch to LC you still have a d**n good MS

I also used to swear by Chemstation... But after working with other software I have found that Chemstion is a good beginer software, but if you what to do advanced stuff, then you hit a brick wall. It can be done but it's tough figuring out how! But If you are used to Chemstation it might be better to buy a agilent system just to avoid having several different software in the department.

[rubyfan]

My advice? Go with the Varian system. We have an older Varian 3800 GC with 2000 MS. The 2200 is just the upgraded version of the 2000. We also have 2 Agilent GC-MS systems: 6890 GC with 5973 MSD and another 6890 with 5975 MSD.

The sensitivity of the Varian is way better. It's generally 2, sometimes 3, orders of magnitude more sensitive. We have evaluating limits of detection for about 10 different analytes - some thermally labile (explosives) and others that are more stabile. The Varian GC-MS always come out on top.

If you are unfamiliar with ion traps and don't want to go that route, then you might consider a single or triple quad system from Varian.

I prefer Star Workstation over ChemStation. You have better control over advanced parameters.

Just my two cents worth. And I promise I'm not a Varian sales rep... Just a customer who has a strong preferance, and several years of experience with both Agilent and Varian.

-Aaron

[orcicdejan]

Thank you all for your replies. For as far as I can see, all of these instruments (Agilent, Shimadzu, Varian, Thermo) are of comparable quality, with each of them having some nice additional specific features.

lipidanalyzer asked if we want MS of MS/MS. Well, having an extremely tightened bugdet (I had a hard time to convince CEO to buy MS at all - and, even now, they won't buy autosampler!), single MS is the only option. Also, rubyfan suggested me Varian system. I don't know very much about ion trap system, but I was warned of unwanted reactions if the sample concentration (all species, not only analyte) is too high. The second thing, I've heard it's much more complicated to set all the parameters correctly, and the people which would have to use it are absolute beginners in MS. Also, in specifications it is said that you can monitor only 5 ions in one run (sounded a bit strange, but Varian representative could not verify nor deny this)?! Maybe useful for science, but for environmental multicomponent analysis it is just unusable. I've asked about their quad system, but unfortunately, Varian's single-quad system is more like triple-quad-with-some-components-removed (it's adapted to be easily upgraded from MS to MS/MS), so it's more expensive than other MS instruments.

The prices in my country would be:
Shimadzu QP2010Plus >> Agilent 7890/5975 > Shimadzu QP2010S > Varian Saturn 2200.
Being just too expensive (at least for my CEO), QP2010Plus is out of question. Saturn 2200 is ion-trap, so it's also out. QP2010S is a bit cheaper than Agilent, but (as I mentioned) their tech support is not qualified enough, and the system uses turbomolecular pump. I know turbo pump is better, but it's lifespan is much shorter, especially in Serbia where power losses are quite usual, and I don't know if we could afford new one after 1-2 yrs. Also, Shimadzu sold only 2-3 systems in both Serbia and Montenegro in past 1-2 years, while Agilent sold a few dozens!
I'm still waiting for Thermo's offer, but I've heard that they're quite expensive (at least in here).

I'm well aware of ChemStation's pros and cons, but as leadazide mentioned, it's a good beginner's software. Except me, noone else in the company ever used (actually, even seen) GC-MS, nor is good with computers and English, so for them not overly advanced software would be the best!

[gcguy]

I would not worry about the reliability of the pump in the Agilent system. We have been using the same system for 7 years and we have had no issues with the pump or the system itself.

GCguy

[orcicdejan]

With turbomolecular pump? And with unexpected & uncontrolled power losses approx once a week?

[Schmitty]

Regarding the turbomolecular pump. We purchased three 6890-5973 systems nine years ago. Since then they have all been used/abused equally. The power goes out on us 2-3 times a year. Only one of the three has had the turbo replaced...and it's been replaced twice

So, I'm not so sure it's a turbo problem as it is a controller problem.

[Rick]

Agilent is the best......
It is the reference on GC analysis
It is simply, good support, high sensitivity, easy to work, a big oven door, Ion source is easy to dismount, low maintenance needed..ect. ...and some consumables are available on differents company.