Graduate school...so confused.

[mordacious]

Hey guys (and gals)...looking for a bit of advice here on grad school.

I have the chance to go to grad school this fall (for analytical chemistry/separation science) in a group that is not related to chemistry (of course i'd be doing chemistry work and taking chemistry classes). Just 8 months ago I was dead set on going to grad school but I'm so confused about whether I really want to.

How many of you went to grad school and how did you know you really wanted to? Should I even go if I'm hesitant?

The thing is, my grades aren't stellar and this may be my only chance. On the other hand it has taken me 7 years to complete my BS and I really want to move on with my life. You know, get a job, pay off debt, buy a house in the future, etc. I don't want to teach...I just want to have a decent paying job that doesn't bore me to death. At the same time, I really feel like I haven't learned everything that I want to learn and I want to do research.

Any advice?

Thanks,
Ashley

[Mary Carson]

Hi, Ashley. I did do grad school, but I had known since 7th grade that I wanted to do research. It is possible to have an interesting, well-paying job without advanced degrees, but the advanced degrees do open some doors. Some things to consider:

1. Check out the group you'd be with. You'd be spending a lot of your life with them, so everything will be a lot more pleasant if everyone works well together.
2. Debt. Your undergrad debt will have to be put on hold, but going to grad school in analytical chemistry (regardless what department it is in) shouldn't be adding to that debt. There should be enough support that your tuition is covered and you have modest living expenses.
3. Grades. Less than stellar grades may limit your current job options. You may be able to use the additional schooling to do some GPA repair.
4. Ph.D.s aren't just for future professors. There are many jobs out there for research leaders that don't involve teaching.
5. Mentoring. Most undergraduates get limited amounts of this. A good graduate program will have a lot more, and you'll learn actual how-tos to go with the theory.
6. If you really liked the time you spent in a lab, consider grad school seriously.

On the flip side, if someone is ready to offer you a job now that sounds interesting and pays well, then by all means take a year or two off from formal education. You can always go back to it. In some cases, you can even get your employer to pay for you to go backjavascript:emoticon('')
Wink

[mordacious]

Hi, Ashley. I did do grad school, but I had known since 7th grade that I wanted to do research. It is possible to have an interesting, well-paying job without advanced degrees, but the advanced degrees do open some doors. Some things to consider:

1. Check out the group you'd be with. You'd be spending a lot of your life with them, so everything will be a lot more pleasant if everyone works well together.
2. Debt. Your undergrad debt will have to be put on hold, but going to grad school in analytical chemistry (regardless what department it is in) shouldn't be adding to that debt. There should be enough support that your tuition is covered and you have modest living expenses.
3. Grades. Less than stellar grades may limit your current job options. You may be able to use the additional schooling to do some GPA repair.
4. Ph.D.s aren't just for future professors. There are many jobs out there for research leaders that don't involve teaching.
5. Mentoring. Most undergraduates get limited amounts of this. A good graduate program will have a lot more, and you'll learn actual how-tos to go with the theory.
6. If you really liked the time you spent in a lab, consider grad school seriously.

On the flip side, if someone is ready to offer you a job now that sounds interesting and pays well, then by all means take a year or two off from formal education. You can always go back to it. In some cases, you can even get your employer to pay for you to go backjavascript:emoticon('')
Wink

I actually already work with the group I'd be with. The work is very basic, GC and HPLC. I'm hesitant to join this group because a) I'm the only chemist, when things go wrong no one really knows what I'm talking about and I have no support b) I'm struggling with what my thesis/dissertation topic would be and c) my would be advisor is 85 years old. I really do not want to get a PhD within this group. If anything I'd get a MS while the offer is there (which would all be funded) and be done for a while.

In short, I'd like to go to grad school but I really don't want to do it within this group BUT I don't have to apply, the funding is there, etc. I could suffer for another 3 years or so though

Thanks,
Ashley

[leadazide]

Nothing about grad school here but in the same topic.

With the risk of sounding very philosophical, Life is too short for bad/boring jobs!

I recently took a carrier change as my old job (lab tech) was killing me.. The pay was OK but there was never enough time to do my job as well as I wanted. So I started lokking around and now I'm working as a service engineer on LC & GC /MS. The pay is a little bit higher (under 2% gain) and the hours are a lot longer, but I enjoy what I do now!

Now I can't understand how I could survive being at my old job for almost 7 years!

Basically what I'm trying to say is that the most important thing about a job is that it's something you really like doing. When you spend more then 1/2 your woken hours somewhere it's important it's something you like!

Best luck with your decision!

[Tom]

Finish school before getting a "real job". If the opportunity is there, get the extra piece of paper. As Mary pointed out, it can open up more doors. Even if you have little conflicts in your group, it's only a couple of years. Plus you get a little conflict resolution experience which can come in handy later. I just spent 7 years while working full time and going to school in the evening to get a 2 yr MS. Trust me...it's a lot easier to put in the hours studying when you can't afford to be on the golf course anyway.

[Kostas Petritis]

I would also suggest that you go as far as you can with your studies, especially if you want to do research...

From what you described, it seems like, your laborotary is not maybe the best place to do your graduate studies... From what you said, it is not clear what your project going to be and it also seems like there is nobody there that could teach you anything about separation sciences (i.e. not adequate mentoring).

But a paid MS is a paid MS... Just make sure that you are there for your studies and not cheap labor (i.e. do work for others and in your spare time your MS project).

Speaking about graduate studies, it really takes a lot of time to do so in some countries. In England you can do a PhD in 3 years while in other countries you need almost double the time for it. I would go for a 3 year PhD (a PhD will open many more doors and hihger wages than a MSc) in England instead for a 2-3 years MSc elsewhere... A lot of times if your grades are not stellar you start with a MSc which you can transfer to second year of PhD after one year... Anyways, I speak hypothetically as I do not consider the money here which is an essential factor... I personally did my PhD in France within 3 years and 3 months (i.e. defended in January of the 4th year)

[Bruce Hamilton]

One aspect to consider is the pressure of any extra work. If you are the only chemist now, you need to be very clear that your focus will be on your career and academic qualifications. You should have a strong and respected mentor to ensure you aren't being sidetracked for expediency.

Whilst higher qualifications are very helpful getting better jobs, it's quite important to ensure that you develop skills/knowledge in areas that you like working in. If you're not happy now at work, extra pressure could make the environment less satisfying. You nned to be sure that you want to complete the qualification.

Does the age ( 85 ) of your potential adviser cause concern because of communication issues, or do you think he/she might croak part way through?. If the former, maybe it's not the time/place for you, and if the latter, then try to have a Plan B ( another potential advisor informally supporting you ).

Goof luck with your choices,

Bruce Hamilton

[mordacious]

Thanks everyone I have a lot to think about and to talk about with my potential advisor.

I do have a mentor in the chemistry department (very well respected when it comes to chromatography) that I did my undergraduate research with but I guess I'd feel more comfortable working directly with someone in the chemistry department. The biggest issue for me is that I fear my possible thesis will be geared 90% towards their work and chromatography will just be a tool used to get there. That actually sounds a bit obvious and I'm having a hard time wording what I'm trying to say. I don't want my work to turn into something that only benefits the field of XXXX while not accomplishing anything that hasn't been done in chromatography a million times (or is done every single day by many, many people). As of right now I'm doing a job, not research. They of course do research but I'm not doing anything new...I just spit data out for them.

That got long fast Thanks again, I'll let you know how it turns out!

Ashley

[gcguy]

In my experience in the UK it is always better to get as many qualifications as possible. It will get you where you want to be more quickly, personally, as a some one who is involved in recruiting my own staff I go for experience over qualifications every time. I suppose a lot depends on who is doing the interview or who is your manager.

GCguy

[mordacious]

In my experience in the UK it is always better to get as many qualifications as possible. It will get you where you want to be more quickly, personally, as a some one who is involved in recruiting my own staff I go for experience over qualifications every time. I suppose a lot depends on who is doing the interview or who is your manager.

GCguy

I rarely ever see ads for jobs that absolutely require a PhD or MS. You can usually substitute experience.

Ashley

[HW Mueller]

One can think of grad school as a chance to have knowledge passed on which one would not get from media, nor from commercial enterprises.

[Kostas Petritis]

Ashley,

Graduate studies are not only about being qualified for some jobs, it is also about being competitive for the job that you applied and future promotions. Yes, a job might say PhD and 2 years experience or MsC and 5 years of experience or BSc and 10 years of experience but when it comes down to selection or later if you get the job to promotions then graduate studies help.

Having said that, once you have a PhD you may over-qualify for a lot of jobs while with a MSc is never the case...

[KarenR]

Hi Ashley,

I'm of a different opinion here. I took 4 years off after doing my BSc before starting an MSc, and other 4 years after completing the MSc before starting my PhD. I would say that you should only do an post grad study if:

a) You can clearly see the benefits of doing it; and
b) You can find a research topic that you're really interested in.

I have seen (and am seeing) a number of people who start research on a topic that someone else wants them to study, only to find out halfway through that they really don't enjoy it at all. And speaking from experience, spending one or more years of your life research something that doesn't interest you in the slightest ... is really hard work.

Good luck in your decision.

[mordacious]

Thanks everyone I've decided to take a year off, apply to some programs just to keep my options open and see if I can get in an actually chemistry department.

Ashley

[Consumer Products Guy]

I forgot to go to graduate school. Personally, I don't think it has hurt me, but think I've been fortunate. Current management seems to believe that the initials PhD confer great experience and knowledge; to me, they're just initials.