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Particle size distribution

Discussions about HPLC, CE, TLC, SFC, and other "liquid phase" separation techniques.

20 posts Page 1 of 2
I'am planning to transfer HPLC-methods(based on 3-5µm particles)to UPLC columns.I just happen to think of how important role particle size distribution plays with these new generation columns(batch to batch variation,backpressure.etc).Is it realistic to obtain equal or even better
robustness?It would be nice to see some kind of statistical reference
of particle size distribution correlation to batch to batch variation.

Kind Regards,
VEBA

In the case of Waters, the particle size distributions are as narrow as the particle size distributions of the larger particle sizes. By this I mean that the ratios of the 90% point to the 10% point of the distribution are the same, independent of the particle size. This is not true for everybody making sub-2-micron particles, since the technological difficulties increase drastically with decreasing particle size.

There have been presentations at recent HPLC conferences on this subject.

And then there are column manufacturers (e.g. Zorbax/Agilent) whose philosophy/strategy points to the opposite direction:
They believe in larger size distribution, resulting in lower backpressure. Which of course eliminates the need for specially designed hardware?
Please notice that I’m neither defending nor trivialising the value of the strategy mentioned above. It’s just another way of solving the particle size pressure dependency problem.
If I should defend the large particle size distribution I would, aside from the lower backpressure, point out that there could be some selectivity benefits due to the size exclusion effect as a consequence of the various particle sizes. This is especially true when working with large molecules e.g. proteins.

Best Regards
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Dancho Dikov

The disadvantage of the idea of putting larger particles into the mix is a loss in mass transfer. While this does not make a lot of a difference when you are operating close to the minimum of the van Deemter curve, in the moment you are above it, either with real pressure (as achievable with an UPLC instrument) or due to the molecular weight of your analyte, the performance declines compared to that of a narrow distribution. Those who have paid attention may be aware that the blending with larger particles was a stop-gap by Agilent in the time when they did not yet have a higher pressure system. Since they have come around to use a higher pressure, they are not blending any more for the column to be used on these systems. QED!

Note that there is no influence of particle size on the pore size or the pore volume, therefore there are no "size-exclusion effects" when different particle sizes are used. There is a significant benefit though for using a standard narrow particle size distribution for large molecules. The problem with mass transfer becomes more important as the molecular weight of the analyte increases, and under these circumstances the blending in of large particles is an especially bad idea.

When I’m talking about size-exclusion effect I’m referring to inter- particle gaps. In large size distribution, say from 1.5 t0 2.2 or something like that, the inter- particle distances will vary more than in the columns packed with more uniform particles.
Besides in my humble opinion high backpressure equals “bad newsâ€
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Dancho Dikov

I had attempted to send you a private e-mail before my post to give you the opportunity to correct your post, but either you or your e-mail system rejected me.

The particle size distribution for sub-2-micron particles generated by Waters are as narrow and uniform as the particle size distributions of the larger particles. See my post above.

I also disagree with you that there is a problem with solubility at high pressure. As a matter of fact, in the few cases that I am aware off (proteins), the exact opposite is observed.

If you are tap-dancing at low pressure it is possible that you will not see the advantage of the particle size of the 1.7 micron columns. This depends on the details of your conditions and your analyte. In a diffusion-controlled area of the van-Deemter curve, you may not even see the difference between 3 micron particles and 1.7 micron particles. As mentioned above, you need to go to real pressures to see the difference between real and fake sub-2-micron particles.

I am very well aware what is going on, and we have not fallen asleep. I am aware that several of our competitors have recognized the benefit of going to 1000 bar. From my standpoint, this confirms the fact that higher pressures are beneficial. I also see that some of the later entries in the game are still struggling with the technology. They'll get over it though. It just takes a bit of time to figure out the difficulties. Been there, done that...

Hi Uwe,

I wouldn’t dream of rejecting a mail from you – on the contrary. Sometimes our anti-spam application acts weirdly.

Actually I think we’ve emphasized our points of view and that’s what forums like this one are established for.

Regarding the solubility pressure dependency, it’s just physics: Gasses get more soluble as the pressure rises and the opposite is the case for solids – no doubt about it. The question is: Does it matter when chromatography is the subject? I don’t think I need to answer this question, because solubility is always and will always be one of the most important factors in chromatography. And now to proteins – besides the above mentioned physics, proteins have the tendency of forming aggregates often (sometimes anyway) resulting in precipitation. One of the factors leading to this process can be high pressure.

Anyway, I posted my thoughts just to enlarge the view angle. Smart ideas arise from discussions/arguments and I’m sure that’s why we all love this forum. So no intentions of offending you or your employer. You have all my respect!

My Very Best Regards
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Dancho Dikov

I will have to agree to all points with Uwe.

Also when comes to proteins we also have seen that increased pressures are beneficial, probably due to protein denaturation. 3-4 years ago in an ASMS oral presentation, Jorgensson group presented extremely narrow protein chromatographic peaks and absence of "ghosting" when operating at >20,000 psi (I have kept some of their slides). When the student was asked why, he tentatively attributed it to protein denaturation...

Finally, we have some orthogonal data that supports this idea, which we will probably publish within the next year...

Kostas, are you saying that you don’t agree with lows of physics, regarding solubility?

Also, denatured proteins are susceptible to aggregation which sometimes (actually often) can result in precipitation.

Please notice that I’m talking about facts and not a student’s assumptions.
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Dancho Dikov

Danko,

High pressures have been used in order to recover in solution protein aggregates (precipitates) .

Below I cite a reference and copy/paste some parts. Different amounts of pressure have different effects in the proteins but it seems that there are pressures that can fold, or denaturate or solubilize proteins.

So here you are:

Vol. 96, Issue 23, 13029-13033, November 9, 1999


Applied Biological Sciences
High pressure fosters protein refolding from aggregates at high concentrations
Richard J. St. John*, John F. Carpenter, and Theodore W. Randolph*,

High hydrostatic pressures (1-2 kbar), combined with low, nondenaturing concentrations of guanidine hydrochloride (GdmHCl) foster disaggregation and refolding of denatured and aggregated human growth hormone and lysozyme, and -lactamase inclusion bodies. One hundred percent recovery of properly folded protein can be obtained by applying pressures of 2 kbar to suspensions containing aggregates of recombinant human growth hormone (up to 8.7 mg/ml) and 0.75 M GdmHCl. Covalently crosslinked, insoluble aggregates of lysozyme could be refolded to native, functional protein at a 70% yield, independent of protein concentration up to 2 mg/ml. Inclusion bodies containing -lactamase could be refolded at high yields of active protein, even without added GdmHCl.


The purpose of this study is to investigate the use of high pressure as an alternative to high concentrations of strong chaotropes for protein disaggregation and refolding. Pressures between 1 and 3 kbar will reversibly dissociate oligomeric proteins into subunits (20-23). Pressures above 4 kbar begin to denature the secondary structure of proteins (24-26). Pressure has been shown to reduce aggregation rates during refolding from fully soluble, denatured protein (27). Also, aggregation of P22 tailspike protein was reduced from 41% to 18% by pressure treatment of a 100 µg/ml solution (28). However, pressure has not been used as a tool to obtain native protein from insoluble aggregates at relatively high protein concentrations, with high yields, nor from covalently crosslinked aggregates or inclusion bodies. We hypothesize that if the pressure effects on aggregates of non-native protein molecules are similar to those on native multimeric proteins, then there must exist a "pressure window" where pressure is high enough to solubilize aggregates, but still allow refolding to the native conformation. The model systems chosen to test this hypothesis were agitation-induced insoluble aggregates of recombinant human growth hormone (rhGH), chaotrope-induced aggregates of hen egg white lysozyme that were covalently crosslinked through non-native disulfides, and inclusion bodies containing -lactamase produced in Escherichia coli.


Remarkably, high pressure refolding of rhGH appears to be independent of protein concentration. Once optimal refolding conditions were determined, we increased protein concentrations up to 8.7 mg/ml, orders of magnitude higher than conditions typically used for refolding studies. Samples pressurized for 24 hr at 2 kbar, 1 M GdmHCl also achieved 100% recovery of rhGH from aggregates (data not shown).

We conclude that pressure provides a powerful tool for obtaining native protein molecules from insoluble aggregates, inclusion bodies, and even covalently crosslinked aggregates. This process allows proteins to be refolded from such aggregates at concentration orders of magnitude greater than reported previously and at yields approaching 100%. In fact, recovery of both rhGH and lysozyme exhibited independence of protein concentration in the ranges studied. This finding is consistent with previous reports that the pressure-induced dissociation of erythrocruorin is concentration independent (43), as is the dissociation at 3.5 kbar of myoglobin aggregates initially formed by unfolding at 12 kbar (44). Previous refolding studies at atmospheric conditions report strong negative dependence of recovery of native protein on protein concentration, even when concentrations were very low (e.g., usually 1-50 µg/ml) (14, 33). For example, a study on lysozyme recovery from inclusion bodies required protein concentrations of less than 40 µg/ml (40), while another study on refolding from soluble, denatured lysozyme reported that recovery of active dropped from ca. 95% at 50 µg/ml to ca. 25% at 1 mg/ml (31). Refolding from a denatured (but not aggregated) protein at concentrations above 1 mg/ml has been achieved (45, 46). Only one case has been reported for inclusion body processing at high protein concentrations (47). Methionyl bovine somatotropin inclusion bodies were dissolved and refolded in 4.5 M urea at protein concentrations in the 5-15 mg/ml range with yields of 80% (47).

High pressure has been found to promote formation of molten globule intermediates (48-53). Although it is customary to think of molten globules as highly aggregation-competent conformations, high pressure appears to inhibit this tendency. Work by Smeller et al. (44) has shown that although high pressures (12 kbar) denature myoglobin, aggregates of the unfolded protein do not form until pressure is released. They suggest that intermediate pressures (ca. 3 kbar) populate a folding intermediate that is aggregation prone under atmospheric conditions, but prevented from aggregating by pressure. This suggestion is consistent with the volume change from native state to molten globule intermediate of apomyoglobin of 70 ml/mol (18). Presumably, in the present case, the conformational state(s) of rhGH, lysozyme, and -lactamase that are populated at pressures near 2 kbar all have partial molar volumes that are less than the aggregated state.

Furthermore,

In HPLC 2006, I attended Uwe's oral communication where he investigated/demonstrated the negative effects when you are mixing different particle size stationary phases...

Also by using ultra high pressures for peptide separations we have reached peak capacities very close to the theoretical ones (read Yufeng Shen papers...).

OK Kostas, first thing first: Forget the proteins for a moment.

You didn’t answer my question about the recognized solubility pressure dependency, regarding solids, in general.
- Do you or don’t you agree with the fact that solubility of solids is inversely proportional to pressure?

And now back to proteins: I’ve read your posting (the references) and it looks interesting. But I would systematically confirm all this exciting theories before betting my savings on them. The text is full of assumptions and exceptions witch by the way is OK as a starting point. But seriously, you don’t mean that you’ve just told me the holly truth? And if every single word was true, there are still problems in translating it all to the Acquity situation. For instance, the folks mention 2 and 3 Kbars ~ 28,000 – 42,000 psi pressure, whereas the Acquity - to the best of my knowledge – can sustain up to 17,000 psi. And then they keep mentioning chaotropic agents e.g. guanidine hydrochloride and urea (in not so high concentrations, but still needed). So how do you find the coherence between this text and the final evidence of the favourable effect of high pressure on chromatography?
You say it your self:
Different amounts of pressure have different effects in the proteins but it seems that there are pressures that can fold, or denaturate or solubilize proteins.
So do we have the absolute truth?

Best Regards

Addendum: I earlier described the Zorbax column as 1.9 μm particle column, but the right size is 1.8 μm. Sorry for the confusion.
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Dancho Dikov

Danko,

I am not an expert in physics and general I talk only about things that I more or less know. So in terms of pressure and solubility what I always knew was that pressure affects only the solubility of gases since liquids and solids are virtually incompressible. This is just knowledge from the high school years and maybe obsolete.

So I would go with this and think that pressure does not affect the solubility of solids in general. I would imagine that if you apply extremely high pressures in a liquid, then you will start having frictional effects between the liquid molecules which will increase the temperature and indirectly increase the solubility of solids (and not decrease it as you say).

But I am sure that as the solid pressure dependency is globally recognized you wouldn't find it difficult to direct me to a reference and enlight me (please do).

About the pressure and chromatography in general, I can only say that enables the use of smaller particle size stationary phases which has a theoretical benefit.

In the case of proteins, if you read my message, I say pressures >20,000 psi (and actually I just checked my notes so it was 24,000 psi) where the group reported peak capacities for proteins in the order of 420 (median peak of 15 sec) by using porous 1.5 um particle size (probably prototype packing from Waters) and not ghosting (i.e. high protein recovery). Again, as I said the people hypothesized that the ultra high pressure was the reason for "all the goods", especially the absence of ghosting.

I do not remember mentioning anything about the Acquity. I also can offer nothing more than references on pressure and protein solubility (for a moment I thought that the reference I provided would have been enough). Furthermore, I never mentioned that high pressures induce protein precipitation and the article that I provided mentions that high pressures inhibit protein precipitation...

Please let us know more about the dependance of solids solubility and pressure.

Yes, I would also like to know which law of physics requires that pressure decreases the solubility of solids. What solids? And what solvent? Water is highly complex, it can change its structure on being pressurized. Solubility in water is, therefore, equally complex. One can point out pressure phase diagrams with their critical points. Which solids are less soluble at the critical point of liquids? Also, if one puts pressure on ice it melts, are Danko´s solids more soluble in ice or liquid water at the same temperature, but higher pressure?
And finally: Did anybody ever report that the pressures used in UPLC precipitate anything??
(Gee whizz, I spend almost a year to find a way to get crystals for X-ray crystallography, must have been due to being in Boulder, Colorado at an elevation of over a mile).

Kostas, the increase of temperature is due to the work input required to get a higher pressure, not the pressure itself.

VEBA -

That's a great question. When evaluating columns, you can look at "big picture data." For example, column manufacturers should be able to provide you with the following data:

1. Batch to batch reproducibility
2. Column lifetime data
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