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Buffers with high temperature

Discussions about HPLC, CE, TLC, SFC, and other "liquid phase" separation techniques.

14 posts Page 1 of 1
Dear members of this Forum,

In our lab we are usually using phosphatebuffer(5-50mMol) with organic
modifiers(acetonitril,methanol). Now we are evaluating possibilities to
utilize higher temperature in our methods.Are there exist any good
references concerning for example:column lifetime,loading amount,eluent preheating etc.
We are using silica based columns with uplc and hplc systems.
Normally our column temperature is +30 degreesC.

I would be also grateful for information about buffer solubilities with
organic modifiers in higher temperatures.

Thanks,
Veba

Column stability is a question of conditions (most important pH) and temperature, if you are dealing with standard silica-based C18 columns. The higher the temperature, the shorter the column life. The higher the pH, the shorter the column life. Hybrid packings are more stable than silica-based packings.

I can provide you with a lot of information, if you specify, what you are trying to do. We have done a large amount of homework on column stability.

Other things, like the amount of analyte that you can load, do not change with temperature, at least not in principle.

Eluent preheating is a prerequisite, if you want to get good chromatographic results. Look for publications by Dolan and Snyder in J. Chrom.!

I can't get decent buffer solubility information at room temperature. You may be out of luck at elevated temperature. On first glance, I would assume that it is not worse than at room temperature.

Uwe,

My primary goal is to obtain efficient separation in reduced analysis time.
Our lab is pharma research lab and we have to analyze vastly different kinds of compounds.Because of that we normally use different silica
based phases(C-18,C-8,Polar embedded,Mixed mode,Hilic).These
columns have max.temperature limits between 40 and 90+C in low PH(2)
according manufactures.I am mostly interested about stability comparison
between polar embedded and C-18 phases.

We have both UPLC and HPLC instruments and our purpose is to speed up
analysis efficiency especially in hplc mode.Our HPLC are capable to perform these high speed and temp analysis,but only unfamiliar factor
for us is column lifetime with these assays.
My question is : is it worth of trying this approach if you take into account all pros and con?
Any feedback would be appreciate

Veba

Dear VEBA:
I believe that you should heat the column to achieve a good resolution, or to effect selectivity, but you cannot have faster analysis by heating!

Worse yet, the compound may decompose at high temp, and you get only degradants!
Use the UPLC that you have to reduce the run time, if that is your goal.

Alfred.

Alfred,

in regular RP chromatography increasing separation temperature does decrease retention times and retention factors.

best regards
--
Robert Haefele

Your best overall stability is probably in the range of pH 3 to 4 for any silica-based packing, including hybrids. For elevated temperature work, I would consider acetic acid or an acetate buffer over phosphate or TFA at pH 2 or phosphate at pH 7. I have no solid information about any differences in stability between formic acid and acetic acid, but I also do not see any reason why anybody would prefer formic over acetic. At low pH, even at room temperature, the bonding chemistry is important. You want a phase based on a multi-functional silane, best a trifunctional silane. The only alternative is a phase based on a sterically hindered silane. With respect to the stability of the packing itself, hybrid phases are superior to silica-based phases. Among the polar embedded phases, select one that does not have any residual amine left on the surface. Also here, trifunctionally bonded phases are likely to be better than monofunctionally bonded phases. What I said above for C18 applies equally to C8 or phenyl phases, but the stability declines with the less non-polar bonded phases.

Polar embedded phases are not a single category. There are some which are bonded with a two-step technique which leave amine on the surface. These phases even show stability problems at room temperature. I would not use them at elevated temperature. Other phases are based on a monofunctional silane. They are good to maybe 60 degrees with a reasonable mobile phase.

All of the above applies to silica or hybrid-based phases. Zirconia phases with a polymeric coating can be used at elevated temperature without worry, but you have to relearn your chromatography. I have no experience with the other zirconia-based phases, but I would guess that the story about relearning is similar.

Most people love to stick with mobile phases of more or less the same pH. I suggest doing the same for elevated temperature. Use an acetate buffer or acetic acid, use a trifunctionally bonded hybrid phase, and you can go to about 90 to 100 degrees without worry. For an alternative stationary-phase selectivity, use a phenyl phase, preferentially a trifunctionally bonded phenylhexyl hybrid phase. I think this results in the least amount of disappointment.

Note that the use of elevated temperature is not a substitute for UPLC. If you use very small particles, the minimum of the van-Deemter curve (=maximum performance) happens at about the same pressure independent of the temperature. If anything, elevated temperature results in a HIGHER pressure. So don’t fall into the trap that higher temperature is a substitute for UPLC.

Alfred posted the point that compound stability may be a problem as well. I was concerned about this as well, but I recently got a very good answer from a user: if compound stability is an issue, you should know this already from the stability studies. If indeed it is a problem, you stay away from a high temperature application.

Oh HILIC… I have no information about the stability of different options of phases under HILIC use. I am also concerned that you may not get a lot of retention at elevated temperature in HILIC.

Robert said that retention decreases with increasing temperature. This is of course correct: the rule of thumb is that retention decreases by a factor of 2 to 3 for every 10 degrees C. This is why you can do chromatography with toluene in water at some 200 degrees C. This is the drawback of the use of elevated temperature.

Thank you Uwe for describing this in a thorough manner. I only have one objection, and that is your comment on HILIC:

"I am also concerned that you may not get a lot of retention at elevated temperature in HILIC."

Just to make it clear from the beginning, in this matter I only have experience with our ZIC-HILIC phase, but working at elevated temperatures is not a problem. In those applications where it has been necessary to experiment with elevated temperatures (that is above 30 degrees) I have seen the same behaviour as with regular RP chromatography, that is increasing separation temperature does decrease retention times and retention factors.

It might though very well be a different story with other phases.
Merck SeQuant AB
www.sequant.com

Uwe,

I fully agree with you that HTLC is not a replacement of UPLC.

HTLC is a another way to speed up your analysis, with totally different rules than UPLC.
1. By increasing temperature, the overall analysis time decreases
2. By respectively increasing the flow, you're again speeding up your analysis even further.

I'm sure that on my approch you have comments. That's why I stopped looking at misleading van Deemter curves, and look at the kenetic performance of sytems.

There is no misleading in van-Deemter curves. Kinetic plots are based on van-Deemter curves. If there is anything, there is "misleading" in kinetic plots, or maybe just simply misunderstanding...

Hmm, I agree about the possibility of misunderstanding with you . But if you’re looking to van Deemter plots isn't it also important to look to P/U plot?
We're running an abreviated HILIC LCMS method for Gangliosides by heating a Hypersil APS2 to 60 degrees, and then doubling our flow rate.

Retention time stability is an issue. We have to do a series of repeat injections to get a relatively stable retention time, but I don't think that the temperature is the issue there as we also have used a similar LC method on a wide bore column at ambient and get drift. Just seems to be a function of HILIC.
beauty is skin deep
but samples with keratin
are just plain ugly

Edwin

dear Veba,
could you please share with us the reason that you want to raise the temperature? I believe you are not afraid that LC may get cold/cough like I do.

we have many other choices to shorten the run time: mobile phase, column size, particle size, column type, pH, reagents; flow.

I think nothing wrong with a 40C method.
Excel

Dear ym3142,

I'm aware of possibilities to shorten run times what you mentioned.But my
object is more strategic and it is arise from possibility to use both UPLC
and HPLC.With UPLC we have separation efficiency and run times on the
level what we wants. My interest is mostly of how to maximize efficiency in HPLC and I think temperature is one factor.
Some of our current used phases are not available reduced particle size
or column length and I don't know , if these manufactures are planning to
produce sub 2-micron particles to use with UPLC.We have knowledge,
how these phases behave nominal temperature,but elevated temperature
is our concern.
Regards,
Veba

I agree it is a good idea to develop a universal method with always 80C, alwsys flow 4ml/min, always 20% MeOH and 80% KHPO4 buffer. or even always C18 column. Thanks
Excel
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