Plastic vials for GC?

[sillyquestions]

Do they make any such thing as plastic vials for a GC? I did a (granted, quick) search for them but didn't come up with anything obviously relevant.

We're trying to reduce glass in the lab wherever possible and I said I'd look into it.

Thanks!

Angela

[paulw]

I have used Uniprep vials in the past. There are some instances where they just aren't viable (due to interaction of the chemicals with the plastic of the vials). They are designed for HPLC but they will fit GC autosamplers also. I would hedge on the side of using glass myself, but plastic does exist.

http://www.whatman.com/MiniUniPrep.aspx

Paul

[rb6banjo]

Interesting. I've never heard of such a thing.

I would probably never use them either. The only exception might be that where your analyte is very concentrated relative to everything else in the sample. Most good GC solvents are going to leach things out of the plastic that will complicate your chromatography for low-concentration analytes.

[Don_Hilton]

There are two or three types of plastic used for vials that can be used in the GC. We tried them as we were dealing with an analyte at trace levels that had issues with glass. We were able to make up samples that could be run within a few hours - but after standing a day or so, the background from all the stuff extracted from the vial was too high. We spent a good bit of time and figured how to make our analytes get along with a glass vial.

It seems to me that there is a plastic vial with a glass insert, which, if cheeper, would be the direction to look.

If you try looking for plastic vials, look for stability of the sample over time - beyond the time you normally have the sample in the vial. You may have to try more than one type of plastic.

[sillyquestions]

Good information, thanks so much.

We're looking for VDK in beer (a small amount of HCL is added) so I think if I can find some that fit our autosampler I'll have then techs try it out.

[AICMM]

sillyquestions,

VDK with ECD? If so, be aware that you will probably see phthalates with plastic vials.

Best regards,

AICMM

[Peter Apps]

Hi Angela

Why do you want to reduce the amount of glass in the lab ?

Peter

[sillyquestions]

One of the techs was cut very badly and we're just looking to reduce where we can.
Obviously that's not going to be completely possible with all things.

Another tech mentioned that they explode when dropped into the glass refuse box (I couldn't get it to explode without throwing it quite hard) but I said I'd look into an alternative.

[Don_Hilton]

Having dropped many GC vials - and even onto hard floors. I dont recall a single one breaking. I would suggest sticking with glass GC vials. If there is something that could make a GC vial explode, there are some other hazards that need to be taken into consideration - even in plastic. If you are talking about the vial shatterign on impact - there needs to be discussion of how items are placed in the disposal box.

Plastic can ge a great cost saver in a laboratory. And it can eliminate exposure to glass. But it lacks many of the properties that brought us to using glass many years ago. I work with some people who do trace organic analsysis and use plastic pipette tips and other disposbles - and when I do GC/MS runs on their samples, I see all kinds of things - and that is starting out in the reagent blank. Trying to identify interferences arising in matrix becomes quite a challange! There is already a lot of stuff from the plastics.

Be sure there is appropriate training for the techs. Glass is not the only risk in the laboratory for people who may not handle things correctly.

[Peter Apps]

Hi Angela

Are we talking about standard 2 ml autosampler vials here, or the 22 ml vials that go into headspacers, or something else ?

I really cannot imagine a 2 ml vial exploding when dropped into a trash container - if there was enough pressure to make it explode the septum would have popped out already. I could see a 22 ml vial breaking when dropped onto a hard surface and after a run there might be a bit of residual pressure in it, but for it explode !???

Nothing is ever completely safe. Glass cuts are a definite potential hazard, but so is the high blood pressure from having to re-run analyses that were contaminated by extractables from plastic.

Peter

[sillyquestions]

Hi Angela

Nothing is ever completely safe. Glass cuts are a definite potential hazard, but so is the high blood pressure from having to re-run analyses that were contaminated by extractables from plastic.

Peter

Ha don't get me started.

However anything "safety" related here is hugely political. Thus, I said I would look into it...

they are 22 mL vials.

Thanks

[paulw]

I will add that it is not just things that extract from the plastic. You have the potential for your analyte of interest to absorb into the plastic too. We had particular problems with methyl salicylate, avobenzone, lidocaine, pramoxine and octocrylene if memory serves. We didn't see issues for things like ethanol or isopropyl alcohol analysis. We weren't doing trace analysis, so we didn't see an issue with in vial extraction from the plastic. The only reason our lab had used them at all was the built in filter. They were trying to save on the amount of acrodiscs we were going through filtering our samples, as well as save time by not having to place filters on syringes and load them everytime to vial a sample. It is a great idea in thought, but a very bad idea in practice. Like Don said, there is a reason we use glass.

I understand the need for greater safety, however this situation is one of the ones where I would find hesitancy. If the analysts in the lab can not use decent laboratory practice to avoid "exploding" the glass vials, then I would be very scared of the practice they use in handling chemicals on a day to day basis.

Paul

[Don_Hilton]

I have broken head space vials. (I'm rather good at it, actually - better than I'd like.) But, in no case did the shattering vial resemble an explosion. Look at any other factors. If the vials are hot when removed from the instrument, perhaps they need to be cooled before removal or before transfer away from the instrument or be placed in a disposable container (like a paper bag) for transfer to and into the trash container. And, I would not trust a heated plastic vessle for headspace analysis. There would be questions of chemistry between analytes and plastic as well as plastisizers and other background generated (and differing lot to lot) from the plastic - more at higher temperatures, but still at room temperature. And with sufficient heating, the dimensional stability of the vial would be questionable.

Examine the problem and see where the hazards arise. Create procedures for safely dealing with hazards. Involve the techs in this work - they take ownership. And then persons who fail to follow saftey procedures are uncontrollable hazards - and like any other uncontrollble hazard are removed from the laboratory.

I am still wondering how one gets an "Explosion" from a headspace vial. My mind goes to putting chips of dry ice in the vial and capping it before dropping it in the broken glass box. Could be kind of cool as long as not too much glass flew out -- or the incident was reported...

[sillyquestions]

Create procedures for safely dealing with hazards. Involve the techs in this work - they take ownership. And then persons who fail to follow saftey procedures are uncontrollable hazards - and like any other uncontrollble hazard (the human ones) are removed from the laboratory.

Of course this is what has been done to this point (the reaction of my direct reports, and the direct supervisors of the techs, is "this is a hazard why") with the exception of removing the uncontrollable hazards...not as easily done as said in a union environment.

In reality all that should need to be said is "don't *throw* the d@mn vials into the receptacle"...but I'd say that I'm working in an atypical lab environment.

ps I can pretty much guarantee that no one removed the vials from the instrument while it was still hot so that was not the cause. Typical practice is to leave them in the autosampler until the next shift has to run a batch.

[Peter Apps]

Hi Angela

I can say for sure that you will not be able to find a plastic substitute for 22 ml headspace vials.

Having worked in a lab where some of the technicians had "attitude" problems I can sympathise with your position. Hint - write number of safety violations into job descriptions, performance criteria and disciplinary codes - always with the emphasis that you are doing it to protect the workers.

On a purely practical note; we always used 20l plastic drums for waste vials. The small opening contains flying fragments in case of breakage, and makes it impossible for anyone to throw anything into it with any force.

Peter