Question about purchase of refurbished HPLC

[sassman]

I received this email from a colluege of mine. I hope that someone here can give better advice than I on the subject. Thanks!

I’m trying to decide what instrument would provide me with the best versatility at a reasonable price to get my lab going. I only have about $45,000 and was thinking of buying a refurbished Agilent 1100 HPLC system with a diode array detector. Prices on LabX.com range from about $20 000 to $30 000. I’m leaning towards a DAD detector rather than a variable wavelength detector since it can offer some degree of compound identification/purity. Obviously I can’t afford anything as fancy as an LC-MS, so I thought a DAD might be the best detector for now. A system with a DAD is about $5000 more expensive than one with a VWD. Do you guys have any opinion if the DAD would be worth the extra money? I don’t really have anyone here to bounce ideas off of. Do you know if there is any compromise in sensitivity between a VWD and DAD? I think I’ll have to forgo a fluorescence detector for now.

[JGK]

I'm assuming from the prices quoted there that its for the LC system alone. If so what is he doing with regards to the CDS software?

Most DA detectors will require software control to operate whereas the VWD can be easily used as a stand alone unit.

with regards to sensetivity some detectors employ 5 or 10 cm flowcells instead of the ususal 1 cm units to improve the situation.

[bisnettrj2]

What will he be using the HPLC for? Research? Standardized USP or EPA methods? Fun?

Does he already have the Chemstation he'll be using to run the LC? If so, does it have the Spectral Tools module installed? If not, he'll need to buy it in order to use the spectral acquisition abilities of the DAD. If he's buying a computer with Chemstation installed along with the refurb DAD LC, he needs to make sure it has that module installed as well, or he'll spend another $1000 or so (maybe more?) getting the add-on from Agilent.

The flexibility of the DAD is nice, but if it's not necessary, that extra 5k could go to a micro flow cell for the VWD and new capillaries to convert it to a low-dwell, low-ECV system to allow the greatest flexibility in using 'superficially porous' columns; or it could go to an FLD to complement the VWD; or a nice array of various stationary phases for meethod development.

[ncarmosini]

Hello! I'm the person for whom my friend posted the question. I'll be using the HPLC to start a research program in environmental chemistry at a primarily undergraduate institute. Right now I have an empty lab and a small budge ($45 000). I was fortunate to have a great analytical chemist (Sassman) help me when I did my Ph.D. so while I know some aspects of HPLC, I'm no guru. Hence, the difficulty with deciding on a system with a small budget. The ones that caught my interest in LabX all come with computers with Chemstation software of varying versions, however not all indicate that the CDs are provided with the system. I have sent out e-mails inquiring about this. This is the Agilent 1100 configuration I'm currently leaning towards for $26,500 and $500 shipping.

http://www.labx.com/v2/adsearch/detail3 ... umb=403726

Quaternary pump G1311A
Autosampler for well plates or HPLC vials (G1367A)
Autosampler cooler (G1330B)
In Line Degasser (G1322A)
Diode Array Detector (G1315B)
Column compartment (oven) G1316A
solvent tray
Computer with Chemstation installed (rev B.03.02), 17" monitor
manuals in CD
all necessary cables and tubings

Since I'm not an expert tinkerer, I'd rather get something that I can work with relatively "out of the box" without having to make to many modifications myself if possible.

I appreciate your help!

[Consumer Products Guy]

That set-up sounds like a reasonable set up. Do you know how much longer Agilent will support the 1100 systems (I have 5) ? Anyway, there are so many that third party should be able to support after that, and Agilent HPLCs are reliable (and I have several 1050 systems still going fine). DAD (I have two 1100 DAD systems) allows one to scan so best wavelength can be chosen when doing method development; after that one to five wavelengths can be used and quantitated, so it can act as a multi-wavelength detector as well. B Chemstation software is newer than what I have. This system could do either research or routine work. Is there a one-year warranty?

[ncarmosini]

Thanks for your reply Consumer Products Guy. The seller has a 3 month warranty on parts and labor although with me being in WI and the seller in NJ, I'm not sure how useful that will be. I can buy a service contract with Agilent but they range from $4000 to $5000 for a year. I think I'm better off keeping that money in my account. The 1100 is so widely used, I found out that someone else has one in my building and the local USGS government lab also has one, so I think I can get help with trouble shooting if I need it. I appreciate your opinion on the general versatility of this model for my intended purposes. Thank you!

[bisnettrj2]

I agree with CPG - that system seems like a good deal, except the warranty seems like a throw-away (unless something catastrophic goes wrong in three months when it really shouldn't - but you should run the snot out of it in the next three months in order to break anything that might break). If the system is working when you get it, it sounds like a good deal. You should put it through its paces to determine system suitability - I'm sure there are people around this forum who can give you a series of tests outside the Chemstation Diagnostics View Tests that will help you determine the condition of the system. Also, make sure the Chemstation you're getting has the Spectral Tools module - you won't be able to use any of the DAD spectral functionality without it.

Otherwise, have fun with the new system, and use some of your budget to pick up Uwe Neue's book "HPLC Columns: Theory, Technology, and Practice"; and Lloyd Snider's and John Dolan's "Introduction to Modern Liquid Chromatography, 3rd Edition".

[adeputy]

The 1100 HPLCs are very easy to maintain and the Agilent website has very detailed instructions on how to perform the maintenance. Since both the 1100 and 1200 sytems use the same parts for routine maintenance items this should not be a problem.

[ncarmosini]

Thank you! I have Neue's book on my desk and will get Snider and Dolan's.

I have another question if you don't mind...

The vast majority of 1100 systems up for sale do not include a controller module (component G1323B). My past experience has been with a Shimadzu HPLC that did have a controller, but I basically just used it to purge the instrument before a run and keep an eye on column pressure during a run. Based on this experience, my impression is that a controller is not absolutely necessary if you have a computer interface. Please correct me if I'm wrong and let me know if you consider there to be important benefits to having a controller. Thanks again!

[bisnettrj2]

You're right, it's not necessary to have the control module when you have Chemstation.

[Consumer Products Guy]

You're right, it's not necessary to have the control module when you have Chemstation.

Agree. We have one controller, in a drawer somewhere and five 1100 systems, and about four 6890 GCs, and don't think we've ever really used the controller.

As to long-distance warranties: we years ago bought a refurbished 1050 HPLC system from Alpha Omega (thousand miles away), and had a VWD detector module go bad during the warranty, would've been an expensive repair. The module was sent back to them, and they took care of the repair, no problem. By the way, we're still using that 1050 system.

The 1050 also shares some parts with the 1100 and 1200 systems, like (I believe) purge valves, pump pistons and seals

[ncarmosini]

Thank you again! Yesterday I sent queries to various sellers and am receiving several responses today. I'll be able to make a much more informed decision with the information you've shared. I will keep the tip about the warranty in mind since a few vendors offer warranties, some up to a year in length.

[Victor]

Before you go ahead with the purchase of a refurbished instrument, I might call Agilent and see what they can offer you in the way of ex-demo equipment. I don't think you will manage a PDA with your budget, but you might get an ex-demo system with a VWD and autosampler for the money you have.

Agilent also have a low price 1120 system. I don't know if this would suit your required specification, but I have seen some very low prices advertised for this system.

Don't be afraid to ask-tell them your budget and ask them what they can do. Times are hard for everyone. You might get a bargain.

[Ron]

I would contact all the major players in the HPLC field and see what you could get for your money for a used or demo system. Demo systems are usually very lightly used, but if there is anything major wrong it is usually discovered and fixed at someone else's expense during the demo period. Most of the major manufacturers have acedemic programs with discounts for college and university accounts. You might be surprised at what you can get for your budget. PDA might be a little over your budget, but you never know until you try. The three biggest players in the US LC market are Waters, Agilent, and Shimadzu, with Varian, Perkin Elmer, Thermo, Dionex, and several smaller players. I don't know that you can get much of a deal from Waters, and I would be a little cautious about Varian since they may be acquired by Agilent, but it wouldn't hurt to check just to see what is available. It is a very competitive market right now, so it's a good time to get a good deal.

[ncarmosini]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll get on the phone and call those companies today.