Advertisement

Two Peaks, One Compound?

Discussions about HPLC, CE, TLC, SFC, and other "liquid phase" separation techniques.

16 posts Page 1 of 2
Hi all,

Just had a lyso-phosphatidylcholine reference standard delivered, with accompanying chromatogram.

Image

%Purity is listed as 100%, but the chromatogram clearly has two peaks. The vendor has just integrated both peaks together. Method details are proprietary so even I don't know them, but I believe it was done on a diol column with an ELSD.

Common sense dictates that a pure compound would be eluted as a single peak, am I right or is there something I'm missing?

I think that the smaller peak represents a structural or stereoisomer. Any thoughts?
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.

If the purity is 100% and the smaller peak is less than 0.5% than that is still correct.

If the purity is 100% and the smaller peak is less than 0.5% than that is still correct.
True, but I can see that it's much more than that, probably closer to 5% than 0.5%.
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.

The severe fronting of the main peak suggests overloading (with limited solubility in the mobile phase). The small peak looks better, but it's hard to tell. By eyeball, I'd agree that the small peak is closer to 5% than to 0.5%. As to *what* it is, I wouldn't venture a guess.

If this were my problem, I'd contact the supplier for an explanation (that's a polite way of rejecting the lot!).
-- Tom Jupille
LC Resources / Separation Science Associates
tjupille@lcresources.com
+ 1 (925) 297-5374

What a wretched chromatogram. Certainly they should do better than that. Long ago and not very far away I did some Lyso-PC work and don't recall them being too tough to separate well. I was working with DMPC, DPPC, POPC, and DLPC, I think, and had to assay for lyso PC's and fatty acids for all of them and managed it in the days before I had an ELS and volatile IP agents...

I suspect it may 100%. but without more details of the product specification, HPLC column and conditions including detection, it's hard to say.

I probably would not expect Lyso-PC to be a single compound, unless synthesised or extensively purified. I would expect Lyso-PC sourced from natural products to have a range of fatty acids attached, and I suspect the HPLC separation may have partially separated them on the basis of saturation and/or carbon chain length.

As noted above, it's time to talk politely to the supplier. I've purchased phospholipids that had died before arrival and analysis, and there were a couple of lipid suppliers I avoid after poor experiences.

As with most lipid stuff, I'd try contacting W.W.Christie for comment or suggestions who to contact to discuss.
www.lipidlibrary.co.uk/Lipids/pc/index.htm

Good luck, and please keep having fun,

Bruce Hamilton

You really should find out the chromatographic conditions. If you cannot repeat the chromatography, why should you believe it? A nondisclosure agreement can be signed to protect proprietary information.

In particular, if this is a UV detector, the 4000 mV scale suggests 4000 mAU full scale, which is rather excessive. This kind of thing must be revealed to you, regardless of an NDA.

If, as you think, this is an ELSD, then I must point out that that smaller peak is a LOT larger than it appears. In ELSD if you double the mass eluted, the peak size more than doubles. This makes larger peaks look disproportionately large, and small but significant peaks can disappear.[/i]

They sell reference standards now with a proprietary HPLC proof of purity? A nonchromatography to boot? Tom and juddc were very polite indeed.

It seems that the 100% purity claim here really only means that the material is 100% Lyso-PC, i.e., it does not contain any FFA or PC. As for how many different Lyso-PC compounds are present...well, on your recommendations I'm contacting the supplier about this "wretched" chromatography (thanks for that one)!

Kinda makes me wonder about the material I was getting before I started asking for chromatograms.
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.

They sell reference standards now with a proprietary HPLC proof of purity? A nonchromatography to boot? Tom and juddc were very polite indeed.
Without wishing to prejudge/justify the initial chromatogram
I think I should comment a little on the above as a small research customer, rather than as a large business purchasing process chemicals to a purchasing specification..

In my experience, obtaining method details for chemicals is often like trying to obtain hens teeth. Even the large companies like Merck would not provide their test method details on chemical CoAs for many research chemicals - NDAs don't evn come into the picture.

If they state compliance to a published compendial method or standard, they refer you to that, but for research chemicals no methodology information was forthcoming .

I've even seen transcribed results on CoAs of chemicals for cGMP production that don't acknowledge the original testing organisation and CoA. Unless that supplier was audited, the purchaser would not know they hadn't tested the product.

With the rise of Asian competition, many producers of small quantities of fine chemicals are very unwilling to disclose full details of methods they have spent considerable time developing, unless there is some issue with product not meeting specification and you are a large valued customer. Typically, I just go to another supplier - but I may be still be getting the same source of chemicals - just different packaging.

I've even been offered test method documents from potential customers that that clearly were provided by my competitors under a NDA, but the prospective client was only interested in lowering the chemical cost. It would be very difficult to prove a method had been disclosed, even if you saw it on a competitor's CoA.

If you want detailed methods, you need to choose suppliers who are prepared to release such information, and many of those companies charge higher prices for their products - to cover such costs. Strangely, analysts expect to get paid.

The reference chemical market has been greatly impacted by the rise of small synthesis and natural product purification facilities in Asia, and a large number of chemical organisations are probably following the infamous "pfs" policy that enabled Sigma to capture such a large chunk of the biochemicals market.

Incidently, did the supplier of the above image even say it was from an HPLC?. It's unlikely to be from an Iatroscan ( run time is too long ), but perhaps from a low resolution lipid system of some sort.

I love having only half the story - it facilitates entertaining speculation.

Please keep having fun,

Bruce Hamilton

Incidently, did the supplier of the above image even say it was from an HPLC?. It's unlikely to be from an Iatroscan ( run time is too long ), but perhaps from a low resolution lipid system of some sort.
Thanks Bruce, yes it is from an HPLC, we requested analysis with purity reported as %area under curve. I believe it is normal phase with ELSD. The chromatogram was shipped along with the CofA.

Chromatographic flaws aside for a moment...the main analyte is 1-acyl-2-hydroxy. Vendor has ID'd the impurity as 1-hydroxy-2-oleoyl...apparently the acyl exchange reaction is unavoidable and the two are a nuisance to separate. I requested a revised CofA with the impurity accounted for.

Thanks to all for feedback, much appreciated as always!
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.

Just curious,

Does the supplier consider both to be lyso-PC?.

Bruce Hamilton

Having figured that CoA, etc., is not coenzyme A or cobalt... , I wonder what a vendor is to loose by stating details of his HPLC analysis of a product he sells as a REFERENCE standard for HPLC. The only thing that comes to mind here is that he does not want to display how far from professionalism he operates.
Normally, any disclosure of HPLC methods for his stuff should aid the sales?

Just curious,

Does the supplier consider both to be lyso-PC?.

Bruce Hamilton
Yes, both isomers were integrated, and the CofA stated 100% Lyso-PC. That's of questionable value, since I only wanted one isomer!
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.

Yes, both isomers were integrated, and the CofA stated 100% Lyso-PC. That's of questionable value, since I only wanted one isomer!
Meet the wonderful world of lipid nomenclature. I suspect W.W Christie and other lipid analysts would consider the acyl group should be in the SN-1 position, but some others don't specify the position.

You probably would have to purchase a more expensive product from a reputable, specialist lipid supplier. Many will provide typical CoAs free on request before you purchase - sometimes with a chromatogram - especially if product sourced from a natural product.

Please keep aving fun,

Bruce Hamilton
16 posts Page 1 of 2

Who is online

In total there are 50 users online :: 2 registered, 0 hidden and 48 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 4374 on Fri Oct 03, 2025 12:41 am

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Google [Bot] and 48 guests

Latest Blog Posts from Separation Science

Separation Science offers free learning from the experts covering methods, applications, webinars, eSeminars, videos, tutorials for users of liquid chromatography, gas chromatography, mass spectrometry, sample preparation and related analytical techniques.

Subscribe to our eNewsletter with daily, weekly or monthly updates: Food & Beverage, Environmental, (Bio)Pharmaceutical, Bioclinical, Liquid Chromatography, Gas Chromatography and Mass Spectrometry.

Liquid Chromatography

Gas Chromatography

Mass Spectrometry