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Decrease in peak response

Discussions about HPLC, CE, TLC, SFC, and other "liquid phase" separation techniques.

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I emphatically second that. Also, I have never seen a weak lamp recuperate itself daily, of course, I have never worked with an apparatus which didn´t compensate lamp performance to a large extend.
All I read into the info so far is that the peaks go down when injecting from the same vial, consecutively, on one day. There must be a change to this sequence if the peaks start out high on the next day, hence Peters question. That is what I would call a systematic approach, some others have blown soap bubbles around, not much else.

yes it was answerd:Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:05 pm after i asked it.

yes it could be moisture, somewhere in the system.

yet trust me it can also be the autosampler.
the sample is 100% ACN, so there could be issues related to that as well and the sampler settings, i have had troubles associated with such behavior in NP applications and it was simply the sampler settings
checking this will be very easy.
and no, not all sampler related variables are erratic and variable. they can also be progressive and if you wish i can give you interesting examples of that after that. i have several nice ones.

most importantly to our case here the matter reverse itself back. it is a very important piece of information and it is from the same vial.

if changing the settings do not help or hint in a certain direction then yes we can start looking at the moisture issue.

Before we get any deeper into a "discussion" of whether a question has been answered or not, here is my thinking on what we know so far.

The problem could be either with the HPLC instrument itself, or the separation method, or the samples might be unstable in the vial.

The analyte is sensitive to moisture.

Each time that a sample is injected, the injection volume plus a bit more for loop fill or whatever is removed from the sample vial. This creates a small vacuum in the vial which can have (at least) two effects. The most commonly problematic one is that the autosampler cannot subsequently suck enough sample out of the vial to give a consistent injection volume. This usually gives eratic peak areas. The other problem, which is specific to this case, is that air gets sucked into the vial through the needle hole in the septum and the moisture in the air reacts with the analyte. Each injection introduces more moisture, and more analyte disappears - hence a progressive decrease in peak area. Critically for the present case, as long as the septum is intact the sample is stable.

To discriminate instrumental and method problems from sample instability due to air getting into the vial is straightforward - inject a series of identical samples from different vials. If the problem is due to air contact the areas will stay the same - hence my attempt to clarify whether the next day injections were from the same vial. Running a series of injections from different vials is, to my way of thinking, a lot easier and quicker than redeveloping the method, or troubleshooting the whole instrument. I would even go so far as to say that as long as the method passes QC with injections from different vials, that the sensitivity of the sample to air contact during multiple injections from a single vial is not a problem at all, because the method can de designed to avoid multiple injections.

Peter
Peter Apps

Basic question guys,

If the molecule is that moisture-sensitive - Forget about HPLC chromatography.

As soon as you open the bottle, it should start degrading due to the humidity in the air.

I wonder how Krishnamurthy stores his Reference standard excluding moisture interaction. And ? how it is sampled.

And, if your standard solutions decline in peak areas with time - how should that affect your sample quantitation.

As we let Krishnamurthy to ponder a while on what to do next in the beginning of the new year,

Peter Apps; please drop me a line to my mail :)

unmgvar, do you have examples where your autosampler started out anew with the original value every day, and then went "downhill" with the following injections each day? (I would prefer an explanation of such a behavior, here, rather than just some data).

mohan_2008: Wasn´t it stated that this stuff is water sensitive? Anyway, such a statement is relative and does not necessarily exclude it from chromatography.

What I am trying to say is:

Instead of investigating autosampler details and other chromatography aspects, let us ask Krishnamurthy this question? How does he handle the Reference standards and or samples.

Since, once you open the bottle - depending on relative humidity in the ambient - the substance may start decomposing instantly.

And this degradation may continue while sitting in the hplc vials and all places where moisture can get in.

In other words - we need to get information on the stabiliity of the Ref standard as is - and the substance in solution if any.

Hi Mohan_2008,

I think Peter Apps suggested quite a relevant investigation. So, once we’ve seen the results of that test, we’ll know the degree of influence the humidity has on the stability of the analyte.

Best Regards
Learn Innovate and Share

Dancho Dikov

... i have had troubles associated with such behavior in NP applications and it was simply the sampler settings
so yes HW Mueller i had a very similar case in it's symptoms.
i cannot explain it myself entirely, i only have my solution to my case

Hi,Krishnamurthy;
I wonder whether you problem has been solved, and what the final answer of your question is.
Best regards!
Terry Z
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