Top-rated data systems

[skunked_once]

The latest issue of Scientific Computing magazine listed the top reader's choice software programs. Reader's favorite chromatography systems were Atlas CDS (Thermo Fisher Scientific), Empower 2 (Waters), EZChrom Elite (Agilent), and Chromelion (Dionex). I've been following the comments on some of these systems but haven't heard of Atlas CDS. Does anyone have any comments, pro-or-con, about this system? My interest is to eventually upgrade our old Chemstation software operating two HP5890 series II gas chromatographs. Any input on Atlas or any of the other programs is greatly appreciated.

[Dan]

At my last company, we replaced the PeakPro CDS (Beckman/InnaPhase and now Thermo) with Atlas CDS.

The Atlas CDS is good and has a lot of functionality and flexibility. However, it has some quirks, processing speed being one of them. It also had some issues of inexplicably lost data; rare but once is enough to be of concern.

I would not have rated it as number one. But it would probably place in the top 5.

Regards,
Dan

[lmh]

I'm always a bit worried by "top 10" lists. Individuals often have strong preferences for particular software, but these preferences are often more based on the history of the individual than the nature of the software. If you were brought up on Waters, you'll always find Chemstation difficult, and vice versa.

Before replacing old, ineffective software with a different package, it's a good idea to check that the old software is genuinely incapable of doing the job. Sometimes features have been sufficiently well hidden by the manufacturer that an un-/partially-trained user can go a lifetime without knowing they're there. Good training, from someone who really knows what they're talking about, is very cost-effective in the long-run.

The next cheapest option is to check if the latest version of the same software can do the job. Upgrades usually cost less, and involve less retraining.

Relevant to this particular case, we had Crawford scientific in a few years ago to do some LC-MS training on (LC)Chemstation, and they were superb. I don't know what they're like on GC-MS.

[DR]

I've used several CDS over the years and have found that each and every one of them has some quirks and that some certain of these quirks will cause any user to periodically want to pull some of their hair out.

The best fit for you will be obtained after extensive research on your part to define your needs, to match these needs against the capabilities of each CDS, then to look at things like ease of use, quality and cost of support, ease & cost of transitioning into a new system and your future expansion plans (if any). You should also get your IS/IT department involved as each CDS varies a bit in terms of how can accomplish its client/server connections and what network programs (adware/anti virus/port monitoring) it will or won't work with.

[abell1234]

Hi

I have heard Atlas is very user friendly and has its quirks but I have never used this software. I agree in part what Imh is saying (what you have grown up with in a way !!) , but from my experience Chemstation (incl chemstore) is very dated and Empower/2 has too many add ons and bugs. In my opinion the best CDS out there is Chromeleon but dont take my word for it ,just enter 'chromeleon; into search on forum and you will see what I mean.

[lmh]

One of the big choices you need to make is whether you want a data system that puts all your data in a database (e.g. so far as I remember, Chromeleon and definitely Empower), or one that puts your data in individual files (e.g. Chemstation and Thermo software). Which you prefer may depend on existing LIMS, QA, and lab working habits.

The database option can be harder to back up unless you fit in exactly with how the data system does it; it might not integrate well with existing file storage systems. On the other hand, Chromeleon offers very clever ways to find old data, and sort through runs by any useful criterion (who did it, when, after what changes were made, and who's been running what method, etc. etc.).

You also need to look at licenses if you work in the sort of environment where they are taken seriously. If, for instance, you are allowed only a limited number of named users on a machine, it may be inappropriate in a university department where many PhD students and post-docs will want to walk up and use a common access instrument.

[unmgvar]

skunked_once

as you can read there are many considerations to take into account in choosing a new CDS, and many others where not even talked about
in order to get the right answer for you, you will need to make your specific user defined requirements then see if the softwares are able to live up to your demands.
remember your most important requirement:
connecting 2 very old unsupported 5890 series II GCs.
some of the softwares will be able to do it theoretically, but the hardware demands might be hard to do, costly, impossible due to missing parts.
what ever you do there are sone features of this GC type that will stay with manual control.

[Csaba]

My interest is to eventually upgrade our old Chemstation software operating two HP5890 series II gas chromatographs. .

As far as I know, only Chromeleon has digital control and acquisition of HP/Agilent GC, besides ChemStation.
As pointed out, you will have to write your User/System Requirement Specification and see which CDS is best for your requirement.
Atlas is a complete file based without search capability. IMO, it is mandatory for a CDS today to have search capability. (But if the CDS is just for two GC, it might not be important.)

Beware of hidden costs!

[CE Instruments]

As far as I know, only Chromeleon has digital control and acquisition of HP/Agilent GC, besides ChemStation.

EZchrom certainly has this ability , as does Thermo Chromcard and ChromQuest (Rebadged EZchrom) I would be very surprised if this capability was not a function of any of the top manufacturers especially Atlas.

[DR]

Empower 2 has this (I'm pretty sure), but it is neither free nor cheap.

[Csaba]

According to the information I have from the vendors, Atlas and Empower still lacks complete digital controll and data acqusition of Agilent GC. It is promised since long time ago.

It is mandatory to write a strict URS/SRS, and scrupulously check the answers. I'm actually surprised how many features the market leading CDS lacks.

[aldehyde]

Yeah there are some things that will create headaches trying to control Agilent GCs with Empower (I've heard that it has trouble autodetecting syringe size for cool on column for example).

I use EZChrom and Chemstation (MS and GC versions) and the latest versions of chemstation aren't too bad. I'm not a huge fan because it does have its quirks. EZChrom seems too stripped down but its definitely pretty powerful.

[unmgvar]

too my knowledge,

apart for chemstation,
only ezchrom and chromeleon can correctly and fully control the 5890, 6890 and 7890.
controlling a 5890 will require hardware adaptation and to have a a/d box as well most probably.
empower can somewhat do it for the 6890 and the control of 7890 seems to have some sort of bug, i heard there is a limitation in C/S mode has well. this is what i know from collegues.

another thing to be aware of is the sampler control.do you use a regular sampler, one with a transfer line? a CTC?

some might say that openlab can also do it, but then again, open lab is an ECM software with either chemstation or mainly ezchrom running in the background of it for true CDS control so it is the same

[ivanvins]

In case you have just those 2 old GCs, you can consider our Clarity software as an user friendly and cost effective solution.

The 5890 control requires HP-IB/RS-232 communication board in the GC (in case you have used Chemstation, they will be probably there), the communication is by RS-232 so the costly HP-IB board for PC is not needed. Please check our website or contact me directly for more details.

Ivan Vins
DataApex

vins@dataapex.com
www.dataapex.com

[giacomo56]

All of these discussions about upgrading 2x 5890 GCs from Chemstation....easy choice upgrade chemstation to it's latest revision, you know the software, you know the hardware, take a look at the latest, then decide, minal cost involved, if that doesn't fit then look elsewhere.
my 2 cents worth