Source options for Agilent 5977

Discussions about GC-MS, LC-MS, LC-FTIR, and other "coupled" analytical techniques.

11 posts Page 1 of 1
We are looking into purchasing an Agilent 5977 and I am wondering if it is worth the extra expense for the HES (High Efficiency Source) versus a normal Inert or Extraction source. We will mostly be running EPA 8270/625 samples, about 50% clean 50% quite dirty samples. Does the extra sensitivity of the HES come at the expense of needing to be cleaned more often? Is the HES difficult to clean? I notice from the diagram there are a lot more parts in the HES and it reminds me more of an MS Engine or 5970 source which were good, but a pain to clean.

It is either this or finding a used 5975, but I am looking at how long until those are marked obsolete. Already have too many 5973s that are stuck with having to have XP computers on them because they just don't work with W7 or higher.
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
James_Ball wrote:
It is either this or finding a used 5975, but I am looking at how long until those are marked obsolete. Already have too many 5973s that are stuck with having to have XP computers on them because they just don't work with W7 or higher.
Woah! Please say more about this. Would that be the bundled PC or the chemstation to which you refer? My HP 4000 Pro and 6005 Pro SSF run chemstation d.01.02 on XP Pro without issue. Refurbs cost me $129 each. Price is now slightly higher at $169 for the dual core 6005 Pro SFF or $174 for the quadcore 6305 Pro SFF. I'm just about to pull the trigger for another 6005 or 6305 to run my 5973 with chemstation E.02.01 so if there is a problem; I'd like to know.

I forgot to say, these systems come bundled with Win7 Pro. But I also have a copy of XP Pro.
Our problem with running W7 on two of the instruments is they will not take the IP address from the BootP running as a service, and the BootP program refuses to load on W7. So on these if we run W7 for the control we also have an old XP computer attached to the hub to serve the IP addresses. Took me forever to figure out how to make it work. These are the original 5973 upgraded from HPIB to Ethernet, so they don't have the ability to hard program the IP into the MS itself.

The other problem is our IT guy will only buy Dell computers and they won't sell any with W7 any more :(
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
James_Ball wrote:
Our problem with running W7 on two of the instruments is they will not take the IP address from the BootP running as a service, and the BootP program refuses to load on W7. So on these if we run W7 for the control we also have an old XP computer attached to the hub to serve the IP addresses. Took me forever to figure out how to make it work. These are the original 5973 upgraded from HPIB to Ethernet, so they don't have the ability to hard program the IP into the MS itself.

The other problem is our IT guy will only buy Dell computers and they won't sell any with W7 any more :(
Sorry again for not staying on topic. I am running my 5973 system using BootP because the cable to the display controller is burnt at the smartcard display connector. I can't set the hard coded address without the display and I am told there are no replacements for that generation of smartcard.
A quick search on Amazon shows multiple refurbished Dell PC's with Win7 Pro.
LALman wrote:
James_Ball wrote:
Our problem with running W7 on two of the instruments is they will not take the IP address from the BootP running as a service, and the BootP program refuses to load on W7. So on these if we run W7 for the control we also have an old XP computer attached to the hub to serve the IP addresses. Took me forever to figure out how to make it work. These are the original 5973 upgraded from HPIB to Ethernet, so they don't have the ability to hard program the IP into the MS itself.

The other problem is our IT guy will only buy Dell computers and they won't sell any with W7 any more :(
Sorry again for not staying on topic. I am running my 5973 system using BootP because the cable to the display controller is burnt at the smartcard display connector. I can't set the hard coded address without the display and I am told there are no replacements for that generation of smartcard.
A quick search on Amazon shows multiple refurbished Dell PC's with Win7 Pro.


No problem.

If it were up to me I would just buy the parts and build the computer I need, but I get told "but that wouldn't have a warranty or support". Not like you need a lot of support for computer hardware.

We also have two 5973s that the display has burned out on. Many of these have logged over 250k injections on them, still going strong but when they keep wanting lower detection limits, it is becoming harder to justify not upgrading.
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
James_Ball wrote:
We are looking into purchasing an Agilent 5977 and I am wondering if it is worth the extra expense for the HES (High Efficiency Source) versus a normal Inert or Extraction source. We will mostly be running EPA 8270/625 samples, about 50% clean 50% quite dirty samples. Does the extra sensitivity of the HES come at the expense of needing to be cleaned more often? Is the HES difficult to clean? I notice from the diagram there are a lot more parts in the HES and it reminds me more of an MS Engine or 5970 source which were good, but a pain to clean.

It is either this or finding a used 5975, but I am looking at how long until those are marked obsolete. Already have too many 5973s that are stuck with having to have XP computers on them because they just don't work with W7 or higher.



The HES is not that hard to clean and will definitely give you much better response. The issue you will have with it is the source gets flooded very easily thus losing you dynamic range. If you are just running clean samples then get it. Also we noticed that the instrument is not the limiting factor for some compounds. There are just some Phenols (atoms not percentages) lost in delivery to MS. If you are going for ultra low level PAH then get the HES. It is insanely sensitive depending on the application.
Labshak wrote:
James_Ball wrote:
We are looking into purchasing an Agilent 5977 and I am wondering if it is worth the extra expense for the HES (High Efficiency Source) versus a normal Inert or Extraction source. We will mostly be running EPA 8270/625 samples, about 50% clean 50% quite dirty samples. Does the extra sensitivity of the HES come at the expense of needing to be cleaned more often? Is the HES difficult to clean? I notice from the diagram there are a lot more parts in the HES and it reminds me more of an MS Engine or 5970 source which were good, but a pain to clean.

It is either this or finding a used 5975, but I am looking at how long until those are marked obsolete. Already have too many 5973s that are stuck with having to have XP computers on them because they just don't work with W7 or higher.



The HES is not that hard to clean and will definitely give you much better response. The issue you will have with it is the source gets flooded very easily thus losing you dynamic range. If you are just running clean samples then get it. Also we noticed that the instrument is not the limiting factor for some compounds. There are just some Phenols (atoms not percentages) lost in delivery to MS. If you are going for ultra low level PAH then get the HES. It is insanely sensitive depending on the application.


I wish we were only looking at ultra low PAH or Pesticides, but we also are doing semivolatile TCLP and waste samples. Currently we are calibrating from 0.5ppm to 50ppm, though I want to move to 0.05ppm to 5ppm and extract 10x less sample volume or dilute current extracts 10x. I believe the extractor source will go that low without much problem, it does running single quad mode with our 7000C. Since we are always getting new projects that can be anything I am trying to stay as versatile as possible but also increase sensitivity too.
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
James, I'm not familiar with 625/8270, but if you need to pass DFTTP criteria, you can't use the extractor lens. We got a 77 for dedicated 525.2 and should have gotten the inert source. What we have works, but we don't use the extractor lens.
Bigbear wrote:
James, I'm not familiar with 625/8270, but if you need to pass DFTTP criteria, you can't use the extractor lens. We got a 77 for dedicated 525.2 and should have gotten the inert source. What we have works, but we don't use the extractor lens.


I have the extractor source in a 7000C and operating in single quad mode have no trouble passing either DFTPP or BFB tuning criteria. The only thing is you have to manually tune since there are no target tune macros for Mass Hunter on the QQQ, even using single quad mode. I have even passed DFTPP using H2 carrier, but haven't been able to make it work for BFB.

The lens settings are quite different however when using the extractor and peak widths need to be about 0.75 to 0.8 amu.
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
How is the sensitivity using the extractor lens for 525?
Running my system w/o the extractor, the lowest I can go is 0.1 ppm. Even then the peaks are not great.
Bigbear wrote:
How is the sensitivity using the extractor lens for 525?
Running my system w/o the extractor, the lowest I can go is 0.1 ppm. Even then the peaks are not great.


On the 7000 I can take Benzo[a]pyrene down to 0.01ppm with splitless injection using SIM with no problems, I can see it full scan but there is some noise around it. I can get the same sensitivity as I can on the 5975 running SIM for the UCMR4 525.3 analytes which takes alpha-Hexachlorocyclohexane down to 0.003ppm with 1ul splitless injection.

The only exception for the 7000 is that when running 1ml/min helium I have a vacuum of 8^E-7 torr, so that helps with sensitivity also.

The software for the 7000 in Mass Hunter doesn't include a specific autotune macro for DFTPP or BFB so I have to run autotune then manually adjust to get it to pass (but having learned on the 5995 and 5970 I am used to doing it manually). The autotune will give me a m/z 69 abundance of about 10,000,000 counts using the extractor so I normally run with a gain of less than 1.
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
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