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Price/performance of thermal vs. flow modulation GCxGC

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:20 pm
by Poly Styrene
Due to the complexity of our samples, we are discussing in modifying our Agilent 7890/7200B GC-QTOF system to support GCxGC in the near future. Agilent wants us to get their CFT technology, which supposedly is cheaper than a thermal modulator but then it requires that the flow from the second column is diverted for the MS to be able to handle it... I am a bit skeptical. We got a ballpark figure for Agilent's own upgrade (which was more $$$ than I expected...) but haven't discussed any offers with Zoex. Does anybody know approximately what a ZX2 including software for data analysis goes for these days? And is flow modulation just a "cheap" solution that lacks in all other aspects? Because from someone who never has done any GCxGC, that is pretty much what it looks like. :mrgreen:

Re: Price/performance of thermal vs. flow modulation GCxGC

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:33 pm
by rb6banjo
What is your application?

Re: Price/performance of thermal vs. flow modulation GCxGC

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:01 am
by Poly Styrene
Typically complex geochemical samples such as oil, organic sediments and extracts. Sample throughput is not that high, so our focus is on data quality and analysis. Another disadvantage with going with Agilent's own solution is that they don't provide the software part, which means we have to buy it separately or develop inhouse.

Re: Price/performance of thermal vs. flow modulation GCxGC

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:32 am
by Peter Apps
The software is the mission critical part of the setup - the quantity of data per run is huge.Also, as soon as you have hardware from one vendor and software from another, every time you have a problem the software vendor will blame it one the hardware and the hardware vendor will blame it on the software.

Peter

Re: Price/performance of thermal vs. flow modulation GCxGC

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:32 pm
by antonk
As far I know flow-modulation works properly in very narrow flow range.
In one channel you have carrier+sample vapour and in another channel - pure carrier. Viscosity would be different at higher temperature and GC controls only flow alternating pressure. In some conditions you will not get 100% main flow blocking.
Experience shows that true modulations is the cryo modulation.

We have played with 7890A CFT petrol chromatogram
http://www.unichrom.com/gcxgc/gcxgce.shtml

and also have built comprehensive GCxGC on non-Agilent chromatograph with Agilent/HP valve (from ticking TCD)
http://inp.bsu.by/labs/lar/GCxGC.pdf

It seems to me comparison can be done this way - compare width of modulated peaks at 5% of height and their tailing for CFT and cryo-modulator.

Re: Price/performance of thermal vs. flow modulation GCxGC

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:54 pm
by xguan1971
Agilent has a first-generation forward-flush-flow (FFF) CFT flow-modulator and a recently introduced second-generation reverse-flush-flow (RFF) CFT flow modulator. The RFF flow modulator works better if your samples have high concentration analytes because it is less prone to breakthrough caused by sample overfilling the fixed volume of the sample loop embedded in the CFT device.

Besides the problem of direct connecting to mass spectrometry, flow modulation requires very careful optimization of column flows in both dimension, modulation period, and flush time (as part of modulation period), since all these factors are tightly coupled by the fixed volume of the sample loop. Once successfully optimized for a set of parameters, it will have to be re-optimized if anything in the system gets changed. So it is much less flexible than thermal modulation.

Thermal modulation can routinely get higher peak capacity than flow modulation does in the boiling point range similar to your samples. However, it was reported flow modulation does a better job for mcuh lighter compounds.

Most current thermal modulator requires consumption of cryogenic fluids, such as LN2 to trap down to C3 (propane). It could be logistically troublesome for some laboratories. Vendors like ZOEX and LECO can also provide their refrigerant model which traps down to C7, however.

You may also look into some new development, for example, at www.jnxtec.com. This company has commercialized a solid-state, cryogen-free thermal modulator based on thermoelectric cooling (Peltier device).

In general, thermal modulator is more expensive than flow modulator, but the extra money is usually justifiable for the extra performance, flexibility, and ease of hyphenation to mass-spec.

Xiaosheng