Reviving an old Rainin System

[apc]

Hello all,

My name is Alice and I'm new to this forum. I'm currently at my wits end as to how to resuscitate this archaic HPLC system. From the replies I've been reading, you all seem very knowledgeable in this HPLC realm. So, I have high hopes that I've come to the right place to vent my problem. Any help or suggestions you can give, I gladly and humbly accept.

On with the issue; this system is an old Rainin and interfaced to a Mac computer. The current situation is that the MAC is registering the pumps as "offline", but clearly the pumps are on and and working fine. I think I'm suppose to be connecting the pump's I/O port to the control interface module, but I can't figure out where because the manual I have is only for the pump and not for the control interface module. HELP PLEASE!! I just want to be able to revive this old relic and ultimately control the pumps with the Mac computer. They really don't teach this stuff in textbooks. *sigh*

Does anyone out here in HPLC land have any clue as to solutions. Any clue where all the red and black wires go and connect to what part of the control interface (if that is really where it's suppose to connect to...)

Desperately seeking help,
Alice

P.S - This also has been plaguing me, what is the ultimate purpose of a terminal block connector?

[Chris0000]

Hello

Im not used to the Rainin MAC software but some hints:

The serial cable from the pumps is connecte to the connector with the phone symbol at the MAC

you can also check the configuration of the pumps :
press "~" for setup, the master pump ( withe the Black & red cables at the backplanel) soud have ID 1 and CIM 5
The second ID 2 and CIM -- .
You can switch the pums configuring the former master to slave and check if one CIM is broken ( move the backplanel too).

The black and red cabels are for controlling the Detector and data aquistion,
So the MAC is controlling the pump and the pump is controlling the DET.

I hope it did help
best regards

[apc]

Thanks Chris0000 for the quick response.

I do have that serial D-type connection connected to the Mac's modem, but not directly to the pump because there is an control interface module. Is that the CIM you are speaking of? CIM= Control Interface Module?

I still think my main concern is that my pumps came with a terminal block connector that goes to the I/O port in the back. Also with this terminal block connector came with electrical wires that I think I'm suppose to fit into specific positions of the I/O port such that the computer can command the pump. the I/O port is a 14 pin port. And while losing precious sleep over this matter, I'd figure that since the computer is registering the pumps offline. Hence, this must be an indication that the pumps aren't talking to the computer, even when the pumps are turned on. I also found that Rainin made other control interface modules. So the specifics of my model is within this post.

Here's how the (position) on the I/O port is configured:
(1)-ground, (2)-start/stop input, (3)-pause/resume input, (4),(5)-Input #1,#2, (5)-(11) Output #3-#1,(12)-(14)-not used

When I got this system, the wires for the detector were hooked up to the detector. --thank goodness I don't have to deal with that issue. I'm thinking when the system was moved, the wires to the pumps had to be disconnected. So the beginning of my dilemma

I have a control interface module which the detector is connect to (as said previously) translate the message for the computer to understand. BUT...I just can't figure out which wires go from the pump's I/O port to the control module. Maybe if I give some more information to this puzzle, it will help.

The module has three terminal block connectors in the back. One block is labeled "Analog Inputs" (12 positions); the second block is labeled "Analog Out" (2 Positions) and "Contacts In" (4 positions) and 5V DC"(2 Positions); the third block is labeled "Contacts Out"(12 positions).

If anyone is curious to what this thing looks like, it's being sold on Ebay, just search under "Rainin Control Interface Module". http://cgi.ebay.com/Rainin-Control-Inte ... dZViewItem

I suppose I am to assume that the black cable is always Grounded and the red is goes to whatever corresponds to that grounded position?

For some odd reason, I feel more and more like an electrical engineer than a chemist. Thanks Chris0000, any more helpful hints after more information to the system has been disclosed?

Still hopeless,
Alice

[Consumer Products Guy]

How much is your time worth? How available are ANY supplies? Your company should get you a modern system, complete with autosampler; convince them how it will SAVE $$$ and increase productivity.

[apc]

I'm but a poor Chemistry graduate student. If anyone has been through this, they will understand. You work with what you have and this is what I have. The parts of all the system work fine, it's just that I can't seem to find the "correct" wiring.

Anyone out there have a Rainin Control Interface Module user manual lying around?

[tom jupille]

Someone (I don't remember who) used to have an e-mail signature with the line "Graduate school; its not a life, it's an indenture.").

In the absence of specific information, I would start by figuring out how the pumps tell the computer they are "on". An old "dumb" pump will do that with either a voltage change or a contact closure. Get a voltmeter, connect one end to ground and the other end (in turn) to the each of the various other terminals/wires coming out of the pump. Turn the pump on and off and look for voltage changes (it likely will be a swing from +5V to 0V). If you find one, it will go to one of the "5VDC" connections on the interface port. Try both and see which one the computer sees. If you don't find a voltage change, go back and measure the resistance between the wires and ground. Again, turn the pump on and off and look for a corresponding change (resistance should drop to essentially 0Ω). If you find one, hook it up to the various "Contacts In" connections until you find the one the computer is looking at.

At this point (hopefully) the computer will know that the pumps are on and should be willing to try controlling them.

Since you're setting up a gradient system (pumps, plural), the next question is how the computer controls the pumps. There were basically two choices, voltage or frequency. I'm betting on the former (if for no other reason than it's easier to check). Hook up your trusty voltmeter to the "Analog Out" connections (in turn) and try to change the flow rate on the computer. If it is voltage controlled, one of those outputs should change (I suspect that both of them will; one for the "A" and one for the "B" pump). Hook that up to one of the Inputs on the pump and see if you can get control that way.

If you don't see a voltage change, then the odds are that the pumps are frequency controlled. This is the point when it really gets to be electrical engineering, because you'll need an oscilloscope. Start by looking at the analog outputs and seeing if the signal frequency changes as you change the settings.

In essence, this is diagnosis by "successive approximations" (which sounds a lot better than "trial and error". Think of it as a puzzle to be solved.

Good luck!

[Chris0000]

Hi

Thats right, the box is the CIM, but I wonder if you need this box.

In the old rainin pumps ( SD-200 /-300/ SD-1), the CIM is already built in
So the controlling is normally done via serial. The CIM module is used, if you are using some third-party devices or more than one channel for data aquistion.

If this is the case, you should be able to connect the Pumps serial and save some trouble (check if the pumps have some serial connector). Here only the detector ( normally the UV-1 ) is the connected via backplanel with the pump Nr.1.

Connecting the Pumps with the CIM-box will be more tricky, you will need in addition to the connections you did describe a anolg signal ( 0-10V for example) for flow control. But in this case I dont know much, check the pump- manual here

best regards

[Chris0000]

.... i did forget:

Maybe its the best, if you give me the product names of the componets

for example:

Pump SD-300, Detector: UV-1 and so on, this will make things easier for me.

best regards

[apc]

Thanks all for the wonderful suggestions. I've also asked Varian whether or not they had a user manual for the CIM, they gave me something for a CIM that's not made by the old Rainin Co. The manual said that I have to specify an ID to the CIM for the computer to read it. There is no dip switch on the bottom of it to give it an ID so that the computer can register it. Anyhow, when I access the "device status", all the IDs are "off-line". The computer isn't even registering the CIM, so does that mean that my CIM maybe defective?

Here is the information to my system you've requested Chris0000.
-2 Rainin HPXL pumps
-1 Rainin CIM
-1 Rainin UV-Detector
-1 Macintosh running with Rainin Dynamax software
-1 Rainin 4300psi pressure module

Thanks all, I look forward to hearing from you all!!

[apc]

Little update, it's not much but at least its something. My current window is "device status" on the Mac screen. Even though all the IDs are still registered "offline", ever so often particular IDs will flash "error-XX".

I don't have the original serial cables that came with the system. Do you think that's what the problem is? The cables are ribbon-like cables. I bought replacements and bought D-type splitter cables for the spots where the line needs to be split. Anyhow, do you think that's the ailment of this old relic.

so if the cables are the issue, anyone have old rainin D-type cables lying around?

[apc]

Problem solved!! I can't believe the solution was so obvious. It's so true, Tom. "Graduate School; it's not a life, it's an indenture." I do want to thank you Chris0000 and Tom who have been constantly answering my long winded questions. I'm beginning to think that this machine was enstated when I was still in elementary school or at least middle school.

So today, after all your constructive suggestions...I invested a weekend on this system. I really had moments I wanted to throw this relic out the 3rd floor window. It was a definite indication to take a lunch break. I ended up for some odd and unexplainable reason, I brought out one of the user manuals to make a bonfire (just kiddin'). I actually ended up flipping to a page and I had an ephiphany. Anyhow, I noticed that the cables I have are obviously not wired correctly to the archaic and primitive instrument, so that's why the Mac flashed those intermitten "error" messages on certain IDs. This was a good sign though, all the hardware works. But also explains why when I set one of the pumps as a master,it couldn't control the other pump. So with further research of the types of cables prevalently used in the era this Rainin system was enstated...it turns out to be flat ribbon cables. The pressure module cable should have been a hint to the solution so long ago, but I failed to notice that.

I guess the rest of this post will be dedicated for those who will come here with a similar situation. They can now look to this post in the archives and find a solution. If they have the Rainin pumps, but don't have the serial cables to the Rainin HPXL pumps, you can make them themselves.

As I was saying, I went to the local computer store and picked up a 9 conducting ribbon cable and also D type 9 pin IDCs (insulating displacement contacts). The IDCs snap onto the cable easily, so don't buy into those computer peoples' antics to make you get a crimper that you'll only use once in a lifetime. Anyhow, I fitted four female IDCs on the the cable and then re-connected the system. One key note though, make sure that when you connect an IDC to the cable you connect pin#1 to the red side of the cable. Also to fold back the cable and then cap the cable off with a strain relief. VOILA, a new Rainin 9 pin serial cable replacement!

All this work to really have this instrument finally work. I feel like I just won the lotto.

Again, thanks again for all the help I've been recieving on this forum. I knew I came to the right place.

Cheers all,
Alice