HP 5970 / 5890

[GLeslie]

Hello!

I'm trying to run an HP 5970 B Mass Selective Detector with an HP 5890 Series II Gas Chromatograph - it's an older setup, but a bit of a workhorse. The problem is, is Agilent has dropped support for the HP 5970 B, as far as I can tell - the oldest system they have information about is the 5971.

I have a copy of the manual - but the pump down procedure is completely missing. My thoughts on the procedure are:
1. Turn on GC/MSD
2. Establish a gas flow of 1 - 2 mL/min on the column
3. Turn on rough pump and pump down the MS to a rough vacuum
4. Turn on the turbo/diffusion pump

I have absolutely no experience running a GC/MS of any kind - do I have the right overall procedure here?

Cheers,
Geoff Leslie

[cleh]

I'm assuming you have two white rocker switches on the front of the MS labelled pumps and service. If they are push buttons let me know, but if they are rocker switches: Turn on the GC and check for leaks. If all is OK, set your temps on the GC and let them reach temp. The rough pump is usually plugged into the back of the MS so when you turn on the pump switch, the rough pump turns on and then the turbo kicks in. If the rough pump can't be plugged into the back of the MS, plug it into the AC outlet. After the pump stops making noise and smoking (should take less than a minute...if longer, you have a leak so shut down and fix that before going further), turn on the pump switch to start the turbo and power up the MS. If you look through the vent holes in the front of the MS, you should see a yellow light on the right side (this is the turbo power supply). This light will turn green when the turbo is reaches 80%. Wait about 10 minutes after the light turns green and then turn on the service switch. You can then start your data system and should be able to connect to the MS and GC. Wait at least an hour to let the system pump down before turning on the filament and multiplier. You want to wait at least eight hours to allow it to settle and pump out all of the air and H2O before a final tune and analyzing anything meaningful. Good luck.

[GLeslie]

They are push switches, unfortunately. I have a total of four switches - a rocker labelled "line", and three switches labelled "pumping unit", "heater" and "standby". I also have two guages, one showing turbopump speed, and one showing the operating hours.

Hitting the "line" rocker switch appears to turn the MS on - fans spin, at the very least.

Thanks for the tip!

[cleh]

OK, the push switches are actually on the turbo controller. The power switch will start the rough pump and fans (again, plug the pump into the AC first if it's not plugged into the back of the MS. Once the pump stops gurgling you can press the "pumping unit" switch (this turns on the turbo pump). You should hear some wining and after a minute or so the switch should turn green. If you don't hear anything and the switch doesn't turn green, press and hold the standby switch in for about 30 seconds. This should get it started (it resets the supply along with putting it in standby). If it doesn't start, you have a turbo or turbo supply problem. If it does start, make sure the standby switch is not lit (if it is press it quickly and it should go out). After the system has pumped for about 10 minutes you can press in the "heater" switch (this turns on the system electronics). Now you can start your data system and again, wait at least an hour to let the system pump down before turning on the filament and multiplier. You want to wait at least eight hours to allow it to settle and pump out all of the air and H2O before a final tune and analyzing anything meaningful. Just so you know, when the standby switch is lit, the turbo will be operating at 80%. Sorry to ramble and hope this helps.

[GLeslie]

That's very helpful. Thanks very much, I won't be working on the GC for a few days but I'll let you know how it goes.

[GLeslie]

Well, it took me a semester to get back to this project, but it looks like there's no problem with the turbopump or supply at least. Thanks for the explanation, it's gotten me started.

[cleh]

Glad to hear it's working. I'll keep an eye out for manuals.

[James_Ball]

I just did a quick look for my old 5970 manuals also but seems someone has thrown them out, probably when we moved the lab a while back

For me the 5970 was my favorite of the ones I have used, (5995, 5970, 5971, 5972, 5973, 5975) but the first time you clean that source you will hate it . If you ever need any of the ceramic pegs, insulators or other source parts let me know, I have a little box of those still hidden in my desk drawer. May not have many of the flying C-clips though.

[MSCHemist]

Yep that was the primary objection of the plant when I suggested just getting a 5972 to go with the old 5890 for just plain old raw material scans. I am not cleaning the source on that thing I want the side pannel and a modern windows computer.

We ended up buying a 6890-5973 from Gentech. I'm glad I still have the 5890. It is nice having a simple FID instrument that I can use for routine analyses and not bog down the GC/MS.

[gmleslie]

That's an entirely reasonable response, I think.

Just found my next problem to solve: after setting up for a tune, i got an error message =

"The mass spectrometer interface card is not active"

[cleh]

Is the heater switch pushed in and green? If so, remove the cover from the top of the MS. Look down in back of the board furthest to the rear. You should see a bunch of green LED's. Are they all lit? If not, which aren't.

[GLeslie]

Both the Heater and Pumping Unit switches are pushed in, lit, and green.

Looking inside the MS, I see a total of 5 LEDs - all lit green as well.

I've tried jigging the connection cord, but that hasn't made much of a difference.

[cleh]

OK, you have the 5 volts to allow communication with the instrument. Is this the original PC and software that has been working in the past with this instrument? If so, you may want to open the PC and re-seat the HPIB PCB. If not, look in the instrument configuration section and let me know what the addresses of the MS, GC, autosampler (if you have one), and HPIB PCB (for the PC) are.

[James_Ball]

Just in case, you can also look in the Tune window for the "Initialize MS Interface" which I believe is in the Vacuum menu, depending on the version of software you are using. Sometimes this will reset the electronics connection to your interface.

[stevek3]

I recently had an HP 5971 refurbished. During the refurb, it was 'upgraded' to a 5972 and supposedly the power supply was replaced. Honestly I was not really happy with the finished product - the EM was putting out <2500mv during BFB tuning (meaning he didn't bother to replace it while it was apart). Still, it powered up, pumped down, and performed an acceptable tune.

Now several months after putting it into operation I am seeing some unusual activity. It was first observed as flat areas within a run where even noise was washed out - occasionally in areas i was expecting peak activity. It happened for several runs while trying to calibrate. The next day while checking a CCV run I got the 'Fault 8 error' = no emission current. When running diagnostics, I can get reasonable spectra with both filaments = they are not burnt out. When I try and run a tune program, it starts out fine but 2-3 minutes into it, I get the Fault 8 No emission current error.

Can I assume that the power supply is going bad?, and that when the spectrum drops out it is because of low volatge to the filaments? The problem appears to be intermitttent but getting slowly worse. I have seen the power supply available for sale on the internet. The manual indicates that it may be a chore do it in house. I'd appreciate any advice regarding checking the PS and if it is worth attempting the replacement myself.