how to prevent from reverse engineering

[jiangds06]

from GC/MS analtyical point of view, how can we protect our trade secrete ingredient from reverse engineering?

[James_Ball]

from GC/MS analtyical point of view, how can we protect our trade secrete ingredient from reverse engineering?

Probably not possible to prevent. The best you could do is find another compound that is very similar chromatographically to add in that would co-elute and confuse the spectra, or add many inert ingredients that it makes it difficult to determine which one is the active one.

If the ingredients can be separated with the GC, then it would be nearly impossible to hide them from detection. Especially if someone is using accurate mass TOF along with high resolution GC.

[jiangds06]

That is the exactly the same strategy that I am using currently. The difficult part is to find the co-elute compounds with the exact retention time. I am using reported Kovat index to predict the retention time. Do you think this is possible?

from GC/MS analtyical point of view, how can we protect our trade secrete ingredient from reverse engineering?

Probably not possible to prevent. The best you could do is find another compound that is very similar chromatographically to add in that would co-elute and confuse the spectra, or add many inert ingredients that it makes it difficult to determine which one is the active one.

If the ingredients can be separated with the GC, then it would be nearly impossible to hide them from detection. Especially if someone is using accurate mass TOF along with high resolution GC.

[Peter Apps]

While you will be able to find a masking compound to overlap your secret ingredient on one phase, they will separate on a different phase. At best the Kovats indices are a guide to the compounds that it might be worth testing.

[jiangds06]

i think we only have three types of GC phases. standard non-polar (DB-1) semi-standard non-polar(DB-5) and polar column(DB-WAX). So if i have these three types of making compounds, it should be fine. right?

While you will be able to find a masking compound to overlap your secret ingredient on one phase, they will separate on a different phase. At best the Kovats indices are a guide to the compounds that it might be worth testing.

[jiangds06]

do we have any samples that can form a huge hump in the gc, so nobody can see anything. I was thinking about fat?

While you will be able to find a masking compound to overlap your secret ingredient on one phase, they will separate on a different phase. At best the Kovats indices are a guide to the compounds that it might be worth testing.

[Peter Apps]

If an analytical chemist really wants to find out what your ingredient is, it will be found out. If you add fat it can be taken out with a selective liquid-liquid extraction, or Florisil clean up. If you mask on one phase there are plenty of other phases, and if you have one compound for each phase there is always 2D-GC, or HPLC.

You will need to add your masking compound in quantities similar to or larger than the secret ingredient, depending what the application is you have to find something that is safe and has no odour and does not interfere with the rest of the formulation. Simply having the same Kovats index is only the start.

CH

[dblux_]

i think we only have three types of GC phases. standard non-polar (DB-1) semi-standard non-polar(DB-5) and polar column(DB-WAX)...

But your competitors have more sophisticated phases as well.
If you are going to place this mixture on the market you'd rather check first if you can hide constituents and be in accordance with REACH and GHS.

[dr_bahram1977]

Dear Jiang

Analytical chemistry is the study of the separation, identification, and quantification of the chemical components of natural and artificial materials.
so, whatever you do, there will be a method for analysis!!!

[jiangds06]

Thank you for your comments. I guess I only wants to add more efforts for competitor from finding out our ingredients.

Dear Jiang

Analytical chemistry is the study of the separation, identification, and quantification of the chemical components of natural and artificial materials.
so, whatever you do, there will be a method for analysis!!!

[Consumer Products Guy]

Thank you for your comments. I guess I only wants to add more efforts for competitor from finding out our ingredients.

Dear Jiang

Analytical chemistry is the study of the separation, identification, and quantification of the chemical components of natural and artificial materials.
so, whatever you do, there will be a method for analysis!!!

I've made a decent living doing just this sort of stuff. I was working this week on some laundry detergents.

So good luck !!!

[MSCHemist]

That is pretty much my bread and butter (literally) too. Flavors duplications. I can see flavors on the gc with either wax or db-5, amino acids and nonvolatiles acids with simple derivatization tecniques and now ever sugar profiles. Not much you can do.

[lmh]

That's why patents exist

[Peter Apps]

That's why patents exist

Good luck with that if a Big Bad Company in a far away land decides it can make a profit by pirating your product.

Peter

[jiangds06]

are you try to mask the ingredients or try to duplicate the ingredients?

Thank you for your comments. I guess I only wants to add more efforts for competitor from finding out our ingredients.

Dear Jiang

Analytical chemistry is the study of the separation, identification, and quantification of the chemical components of natural and artificial materials.
so, whatever you do, there will be a method for analysis!!!

I've made a decent living doing just this sort of stuff. I was working this week on some laundry detergents.

So good luck !!!