Chromatography Forum

Software for GC and GCMS.
We have just installed an Agilent 5977E/7820A and a Thermo Trace 1300, and now have 3 software systems Chemstation, Masshunter, and Chromeleum. I was wondering what people thought of the systems and whether it would be simpler to rationalize things and set the instruments up with only one system. In the limited time I have had on the Agilent, the Chemstation looks old but quite easy to use. The Masshunter looks full of bells and whistles and thus more difficult to use ( but should be good when mastered?), and I haven't got the Chromeleum running yet but Thermo were going on about how it was the best package ( but then they would!).

Of course Chromeleon is best. And it can Control ordinary Agilent GC. However for GC MS you must stick with the vendors software. Please, keep us updated with your experince!

Of course Chromeleon is best. And it can Control ordinary Agilent GC. However for GC MS you must stick with the vendors software. Please, keep us updated with your experince!

Thanks Csaba ( you dont work for Thermo do you- joke!)?
Yes everyone that seems to know about this says chromeleum is good. I will start to use it in the next few weeks so will let you know, but the other software seems pretty good. i like chemstation because it is so easy, ( but the reports looks like they have come off a typewriter!). The Masshunter looks like it can do evrything that I need and 100x more but it is more complex and the simple things seem lost ( or not there!).

Any why is Chromeleum so good?

Hi, my experience is a bit outdated; I'm working with Chromeleon 6.8 and ChemStation A, D & E-series (& MassLynx & Empower &...) but not with MassHunter nor Chemstation C-series nor Chromeleon 7.2. But Chromeleon 6.8 is the easiest to use AND most powerful CDS from the user perspective and at the same time the CDS that is easiest to set up and support in a controlled environment with a not so co-operative IT departement.

Just wait a few months and visit Agilent for the new OpenLAB CDS..... I will keep the forum updated here..

We have a new Thermo LC with Chromelion and coming from an Agilent MSDChemstation/Mass Hunter background to me it seems less intuitive, but powerful.

MSDChemstation is super easy to use and to learn, but since it is going away as Agilent replaces it with Mass Hunter we must learn to adapt. I have a new Agilent 7000QQQ and am learning Mass Hunter. The good thing is the front end of the instrument control is a good mimic of the MSDChemstation. They have also added the EnviroQuant version to Mass Hunter so that helps somewhat for us old Agilent users. The only thing that makes Mass Hunter less attractive to me is how they split Qualitative and Quantative portions of the analysis software. I much preferred the older MSDChemstation way of doing thing where you can look at chromatograms, evaluate spectra and quantitate all in the same window more or less. With Mass Hunter you have to process the quanted data separately, then if you want to look at the spectra of an unknown you have to open the file in the qualitative software. But the advantages are that you can do deconvolution and advance library searches and better control of the calibrations and such, and I am sure much more, once I fully learn what it can do.

I agree with James_Ball.

Also comming from an "Agilent using background" to a Thermo enviroment, i find Thermo software (in general) to be more complicated than it should be. MSD Chemstation was indeed nice. So is Chemstation (talking about LC and GC here) when compared to Chromeleon. I have had the same "Chromeleon is the best, we have won some prize for being..." bla bla, but honestly, i'm not inpressed. Talking strictly about LC, Chemstation is by far userfriendlier and more intuitive, Empower (from Waters) is also better. For the MS part Thermo Xcalibur isn't all that bad, but certainly not as nice as MSD Chemstation used to be (but neither is Masshunter, so...). Also Bruker software for MS is nice (i have worked with and Agilent LC/MS, which had Chemstation and Bruker Compass). In the end it's up to you, but I would choose Agilent.

" bla bla, but honestly, i'm not inpressed. Talking strictly about LC, Chemstation is by far user friendlier and more intuitive, Empower (from Waters) is also better. "

Well from my experience from working with about 200 users of LC and GC at a major site I was at previously is that two users preferred ChemStation and none preferred Empower.

When I discussed the ChemStation layout with HP/Agilent representatives long ago, even they admitted that the menu system is non-logical and non-standard and it would be improved with the new system in work at the time (Cerity).

By the way, have you for instance noticed the differences between ChemStation for LC and GC-MS; two teams of programmers that still not communicate even after 20 years and do not exchange ideas of solutions that each team has done best. When I really worked a lot with ChemStation A-series for LC-MS I noticed that even within that program the same user interface tasks were solved differently in different parts of the application. Not really what I would call quality software.

Hello Csaba, you would be pleased to hear that things have dramatically changed at Agilent in the past 9 years after the take over of SSI. No more separate working teams here. So your outdated experiences with software and the Agilent organisation we need to update soon.

Stay tuned for the next version of OpenLAB CDS!

Software for GC and GCMS.
We have just installed an Agilent 5977E/7820A and a Thermo Trace 1300, and now have 3 software systems Chemstation, Masshunter, and Chromeleum. I was wondering what people thought of the systems and whether it would be simpler to rationalize things and set the instruments up with only one system. In the limited time I have had on the Agilent, the Chemstation looks old but quite easy to use. The Masshunter looks full of bells and whistles and thus more difficult to use ( but should be good when mastered?), and I haven't got the Chromeleum running yet but Thermo were going on about how it was the best package ( but then they would!).

Maybe we should get you a demo of the next version, pretty awesome. Trace will be added too if Thermo can get their act together in time .

Contact me on my Agilent email address, found in my profile

Yes Csaba, you are right.

Unfortunately, i have worked very little with Chemstation Rev.A (we only had it on one machine on my old workplace) but worked extensively with Rev. B and C. It's true that with Rev.A ...the LC and GC software were very different, apart from the design and look, but things got much better with later version (B, C and OpenLab Chemstation Ed.).

From my experience most people i know who worked with both Chemstration and Empower preferred Chemstation due to it being userfriendlier, a few liked both and very few liked Empower more. Of course, apart from being also question of what you get used to, i also noted (and please, take no offence anyone!) that most users in the industry have no clue on how a software works, on how to properly use any software in general and can barely use simple software like MS Office and Internet Explorer (but are surprisingly good at facebook:P) ... so i think this is why from a regulatory point of view, most prefer Empower...it's programmed in such a way that any user, no matter how little knowledge of computers and software he/she has, can't do anything non-compliant. While Chemstation is able to do anything as properly and as compliantly as Empower (from Rev.B and mostly C upwards) users don't know how to properly use it, they end up saving stuff all over the place etc. and auditors having as little knowledge as users in generally can't explani what happend and they simply conclude "aaaah...this software is not good"

So, I'm sceptical about people who prefer Empower because 99% of the time they either a) have never, or just barely user Chemstation and b) have no idea about the programming behind each one and thus are unable to understand how each functions. All people i know who are good at computers (or even programmers) and have used both software always told me the same thing...Empower is better where you have users who have no clue on how to properly use software, while Chemstation is simple to use but needs some skills (even programming skills) to master.

i also noted (and please, take no offence anyone!) that most users in the industry have no clue on how a software works, on how to properly use any software in general and can barely use simple software like MS Office and Internet Explorer (but are surprisingly good at facebook:P) ...

Sadly, I must agree with that statement.

i also noted (and please, take no offence anyone!) that most users in the industry have no clue on how a software works, on how to properly use any software in general and can barely use simple software like MS Office and Internet Explorer (but are surprisingly good at facebook:P) ...

Sadly, I must agree with that statement.

It's sad, but i've concluded this after seeing/discussing with people from all over the industry, not just one company or another, not just equipment users but also suppliers.

I've also took some notes, and for the next time we are hiring i will also emphasize on the computer-usage skills. Unfortunately, a solid knowledge of chemistry and maybe engineering is not enough anymore, it must be backed up by good PC-skills in my opinion.