UPLC from four vendors Waters Agilent Thermo(Dionex) Shimazu

[susiedai]

Our lab is the process to replace our old HPLC with a UPLC system. The old Waters Enpower really lasted us more than 10 years. Currently I am exploring Agilent 1290, Waters Acquity, Thermo (previous Dionex) SR 3000 and Shimazu Nexera and UFLC XR .

I read some earlier threads about Waters and Agilent already. Our lab uses Agilent 1100 and Waters Alliance system but no experience with Dionex and Shimazu systems yet

We don't need a MS to this end. just a fluorescence detector at the moment.

Can you comment?

Thanks a lot!

Susie

[danko]

If you already use Empower and you intend to do so in the future, I would advise you to pick up one of the brands you're using currently - i.e. Either Waters or Agilent.

Best Regards

[t_morris]

We have 10 Dionex systems...They are all falling apart. The sample coolers will not pass calibration. The tech stated that they must be leaking refrigerant. They want over 10 grand to fix the problem, when obviously it was a manufacturing defect(Really just to recharge the systems so it will pass until it looses enough to need to be charged again). The pressure transducer on the pump is slowly leaking from all 10 machines...there is no seal here it is a full part to reorder. I don't see the dionex machines hold pressure as well as the agilent systems we have. Overall on the 10 machines(Dionex 3000) we work with versus the 6 agilent 1100. I choose the older 1100 series all the time. They are much more reliable and have been. So be wary of Thermo(Dionex) the 3000series machine is a heavy paperweight.

Tim

[Hfranz]

Tim,
I was told that you are working with Dionex IC systems. Is this true? If yes, your entry is quite misleading as this discussion is about UHPLC systems.

Regards,

Holger
____________________
Thermo Fisher Scientific

[Vlad Orlovsky]

It was and is always 100% Agilent for us.

[t_morris]

Tim,
I was told that you are working with Dionex IC systems. Is this true? If yes, your entry is quite misleading as this discussion is about UHPLC systems.

Regards,

Holger
____________________
Thermo Fisher Scientific

@Holger. Correct in our lab we work under HPLC conditions, but according to the thermo fisher website- "HPLC and UHPLC capabilities are connected in one system platform." This platform is the ultimate 3000 series. I believe the sensitivity of the detectors we operate is superior to the Agilent 1100s, but I was specifying about the platform as a whole. I was mentioning the poor capabilities your sampler system and pump system are in comparison to the Agilent 1100 system (adding to the comment that in HPLC conditions). Therefore with that in mind if I were to extrapolate that into UHPLC conditions I would surmise that the chromatography produced will only look worse, and you will have a sampler cooler that leaks.

So although we have 10 out of 16 of our HPLC systems Dionex, we will be looking elsewhere in the future due to some of these issues to see what the other competition has brought to the table in the "revolution" of UHPLC.

Hopefully this clarifies my initial point, and sorry for the misleading entry above.

Tim

[Hfranz]

@Tim: OK, the information about IC was obviously not correct. We would like to find out why you are experiencing such an extraordinary number of issues. Sorry for the trouble you had, but I am sure that we will find a solution how to deal with it. Please let me know an email address to contact you directly.
BTW, I do not agree with your conclusions on the capabilities of the UltiMate 3000 and the Agilent 1100 Series. The leaks you see have no relation to the quality of the chromatographic results. The UltiMate 3000 is the fastest glowing (U)HPLC platform in the industry, and that is for good reasons.

Holger
____________________
Thermo Fisher Scientific

[t_morris]

You can reach me through email timothy.morris@pciservices.com

[Hfranz]

Overall on the 10 machines(Dionex 3000) we work with versus the 6 agilent 1100.

@t_morris:
I was informed by our local team that the issues had been addressed shortly after your chromforum entry. Although this is already some time ago, I wanted to state that it was confirmed that this was about IC, not HPLC and for sure not UHPLC.
I also think that I now know where the confusion comes from: You said Dionex 3000 Series. In fact there is an IC and a HPLC product line with 3000 in the name, the ICS-3000 and the UltiMate 3000 system. Abviously you use IC systems and compare them against an HPLC systems. I think this is at least not entirely fair, especially when working at close to UHPLC pressures.

[dap]

Hello.
We have several Agilent systems from 11XX to 1290. There are no problems with old devices but 1260-1290 provide a pump with a strange bug to stuck at gradients to more that 80% of organic phase. The same problem will occur at 100% organic phase if flow rate is increased. Our local Agilent reseller can't help with it

[lmh]

Have a good personal look at all 4 systems and see what suits your lab.

If you've got staff who won't want to learn new software, and you're heavily committed to Empower, it makes sense to stick to systems that Empower can control.

If you have flexibility, look at each software package, and each piece of hardware, and choose the combination that works for you.

Don't take too much notice of the majority view here! Waters obviously have a big UPLC customer base because they invented the whole thing; Agilent have a vast customer base in routine analysis. Naturally anyone in a high through-put routine analysis lab will be very nervous of any change or risk, and quite rightly so. If they're happy with what they've got, it would take a major disaster to get them to consider a different manufacturer. Therefore the fact there are lots of happy Waters and Agilent users out there doesn't necessarily mean that Waters and Agilent are the only good companies.

Do get each supplier to give you the contact details of a few labs prepared to act as referees. They can, at least, vouch for whether the local service is good. Of course they should be very positive (no company is going to offer a grumpy customer as a referee), but it provides some peace of mind that at least there are happy customers out there.

[Uros]

Hello.
We have several Agilent systems from 11XX to 1290. There are no problems with old devices but 1260-1290 provide a pump with a strange bug to stuck at gradients to more that 80% of organic phase. The same problem will occur at 100% organic phase if flow rate is increased. Our local Agilent reseller can't help with it

I had similar problem with one of the HPLC. The problem was in regional settings on the controlling computer, which was set to local regional settings instead of English (US).

[dap]

Uros, I am really disappointed: when usually it can be fixed via spanner and lots of gas will escape; is any possibility to resolve it via OS settings? Anyway we'll try it, thank you!

[dap]

Nope. Windows settings change nothing for me. Imho 1260' degasser is significantly worse that 1200' one. The only way to prevent it is to degas organic solvents (just out of bottle) too or always use pump only in single channel mode.

[Bull76]

Hi,

Most vendors can and should be able to show you the results of your sample when ran on their system. UPLC systems offer a great advantage over HPLC systems and analysis.
Since your using Empower then Waters and Agilent systems are both compatible with Empower. But note that if you use any other system other than Waters with Empower. Then it is up to the vendor of the UPLC system to ensure you have the correct drivers to control that system on Empower. Just because a sales rep says it will function doesn't mean it will. Waters Acquity and H-class systems have been out for a good few years at this stage and offer a very good and reliable system.

Regards,
Bull76.