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irreproduceability in GC injections for FAME analysis

Discussions about GC and other "gas phase" separation techniques.

15 posts Page 1 of 1
Hello,
We are having problems with severe run-to-run variation in our fatty acid methyl ester (FAME) analysis technique (GC-FID).

First, to give our run conditions: The FAMEs are dissolved in hexane, transferred to tapered vials, crimped with teflon-lined caps and placed on the autosampler prior to injection. A 2uL aliquot is injected into the injection port, which contains a 5mm diameter straight deactivated glass liner held at 250 degrees C. Carrier gas is hydrogen, running at a head pressure of 145psi and a 50:1 split ratio. Separation is through a 60m polar capillary column, with detection by FID.

We have successfully used this technique for several years with thousands of samples. However, we have recently noticed that one out of every five to ten samples is failing to give a full-scale chromatogram - i.e. all the peaks are there but severely reduced in height. The solvent peak is also much reduced in height and width, which indicates that this is not a sample prep problem, but rather an injection/loading problem. We routinely use 10uL removeable needle syringes in the autosampler, with 70mm cone-tipped needles. Observations during injections show that sample pick-up is OK. Leak checks indicate that the system is leak-free, and split flow is stable. We assume the detector is OK as when there is a problem run, all peaks are down in that run and then the next run is fine (I would expect random decreases in response during a run id the detector was playing up).

We are at a loss to explain this problem, especially given that the same method and equipment has served us faithfully for years without a problem. Our assumption is that sample is not getting onto the column in the faulty runs, and that this problem has to lie in either sample transfer from the syringe into the injection port, or a faulty split path. Can anyone shed any light on what the problem might be or how to diagnose it?

Thanks
Tony

:!:
We had the same problem with CS2 analysis,on column+ FPD,a year ago,a random error in injection,after 10-15 injections.

That was not a needle problem ,we 've not seem everything wrong at all ...but the only way to stop the problem was to change the autosampler.

Yet it works fine,but we still have no expalantion

:idea:
One possibility for you is to try another AS,to see if it works well.

bye
The tip of the needle may not have the proper curve to avoid coreing the septum. Dirt, septum material, dried material from previous injections within the needle may cause the syringe not to fill properly. Thus it cannot inject the proper amount of liquid.

Bad septum material can be a cause for this to occur.

Make sure also that the samples are not being warmed while in the autosampler. Some vials may be exposed to warming while others are not.
Hi
what is good RSD in analysis of FAME with GC (FID)?
saba

RSD

!%
!%
my RSD is 5%.
what is the range of RSD?(for a good reproducible analysis)
thanks
saba

RSD

hmmm, let me think, that is a good question, it depends upon the analysis I think. But once you have esterified the acid and have a stable solution, I would expect the analysis to be quite reproducible (of that one solution).

A manual or autosampler GC method that has a greater than 2% RSD would not be desirable I would think.

But trace analysis, or an analysis using a splitter and capillary column could range higher. If your measurement of a FAME varies 5%, 1 part in 20, you are not getting a consistent sample on column or the FAME is decomposing or evaporating away.

Not knowing your exact analysis, I would not be confident in saying 5% is good enough or NOT good enough.

Sorry I cannot be of more help.

Agree with Chromatographer1. The RSD actually is dependent on your analysis. Normally if you do main component assay, it is quite reasonable to set your RSD as 1.0%. This is not only for GC, for HPLC as well; if you do residual solvent test, since the level is low, normally is hundreds to thousands ppm, the RSD is 5.0%; if your solvent content is lower than this, it is reasonable to set RSD as 10% or even 20%.....

Just curious if glasswool is used in the deactivated liner? I have compared the liner with and without glass for the analysis of solvent including hexane. The finding is that with glasswool gives good repeatability, however, the results are not reproducible for the liner without glass wool.
I just checked the results of an injection reproducibility study that I ran on an HP5890 GC-FID with autosampler. The percent variation for nine consecutive injections of 1-uL of a FAME standard was 0.1% for all eight peaks. Note that this was for a prepared standard so sample preparation error is not included in this test.

It is important to use a plug of deactivated glass wool if you are using a straight liner. Other types of liners with various types of mixing chambers are available but I don't have any data on them.
Hi
I work with GC/FID, and analysis the FAMEs(methyl oleate),I have a problem!
I use a 1ul syringe, and inject 0.1-0.2ul sample,but apear the same peak in another injection(solvent), I change syringe but not solve.
do I do?
thanks
First, clean your syringe thoroughly with clean solvent, even removing the plunger.

If the carryover peak is still seen it may be washout from deposits in your injector. You may be injecting too quickly or too much for the temperature and pressure existing in your injector. (not likely)

If the problem is due to active sites in your injector (dirty injector) you may wish to place a 0.5µL solvent plug behind the sample plug in your syringe to 'wash' the sample from your syringe and your injector.

I suggest you flush your syringe with clean solvent several times after each injection.
First, clean your syringe thoroughly with clean solvent, even removing the plunger.

If the carryover peak is still seen it may be washout from deposits in your injector. You may be injecting too quickly or too much for the temperature and pressure existing in your injector. (not likely)

If the problem is due to active sites in your injector (dirty injector) you may wish to place a 0.5µL solvent plug behind the sample plug in your syringe to 'wash' the sample from your syringe and your injector.

I suggest you flush your syringe with clean solvent several times after each injection.
thanks
I do these.
but I inject with a new syringe only solvent and this peak apears,I use methanol and acetone but by N-hexane this peak does not apeare.
I don't underestand.I use glass wool in glass insert (injector).
what concenterations can be injecte (FAME)?
best regards
I suspect that you are washing out this material that has been flashed back in your injector pneumatics from previous injections that were too large for the void space in the injector.

They are released from bare metal contact when a polar solvent is used but are not released when hexane is used.

Rod
I suspect that you are washing out this material that has been flashed back in your injector pneumatics from previous injections that were too large for the void space in the injector.

They are released from bare metal contact when a polar solvent is used but are not released when hexane is used.

Rod
thanks a lot
so why should use hexane as a solvent for preparation of FAMEs solution?
in the previous post was said that hexane is better than methanol!!?
best wishes
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