How does one survive Chemstation

[Charles A. Burger]

As much as I want to bad mouth a certain product, I realize it is unprofessional, unwise and unproductive. SO I will present my situation and hopefully someone can either provide divine insight that will unlock all my hidden potential or at the very least send me a leather strap to protect my teeth from the griting and nashing I currently do.

I started out my career using the Spectra Physics integrators for GC and HPLC analysis. Fairly easy to use, annoying if you had long runs, but not too difficult.

Next was TurboChrom -> TotalChrom. Cumbersome during reintegration, but I really understood the tutorials once I realized the key to integration was having the proper pts/second set, I could handle most integration with Noise Thresholds, Area Thresholds and bunching factors.

Third is Chromeleon 6.8. This Data system has been the most intuative, to me, that I have used. Integration parameters, however, I still don't understand. Peak Slice and Sensitivity still don't really make much sense to me, but I could at least generate consistent integration, run to run.

Currently, I am learning Chromeleon 7.1 and ChemStation. Both control Agilent 6890 GCs. As I expected, I'm quickly picking up the 7.1. But Holy Cow am I struggling with ChemStation. Evaluating data feels labored, slow and cumbersome. It doesn't make sense to me. I'm dreading the work I have to process because I just don't feel comfortable with the integration parameters and how they work. I've read some of the help sections, but don't feel as if I'm really grasping anything. Even when I do get help from my peers, I feel that they also share my same difficulties in understanding the Data system.

So as I look over what I've wrote so far, a question came to mind, what integration parameters are the most critical? How many of them are there and what priority do they hold in day to day integration?

[antonk]

IMO integration paraimeters can be prioritized that way:
1. peak half-width
2. peak area rejection filter
3. peak amplitude rejection filter
4. baseline behaviour (VV VB BB etc)

As far I remember chemstation can automatically determine noise level in specified part of chromatogram (one of magic buttons in integration toolbar) and subsequently adjust integration algorithm.

The only way I can recommend to run away from Chemstation logic - try ours (data processing is free).
http://www.unichrom.com/unichrome.shtml

[Charles A. Burger]

Unfortunately I am not the all powerful OZ so I'm stuck with what I got. I'm just one of those people that want to understand what I'm working with. The perfectionist predicament is what I am vortexing in at the moment.

[KM-USA]

I've used ChemStation A.03 through A.09 for almost 20 years, and I'm a computer-idiot, and felt it was straightforward and felt had had decent expertise with it, especially if one did NOT update to the dreaded "enhanced integrator". GC and HPLC use was exactly the same except for the column headings under "Instrument". We also had ChemStore data security.

Over a year ago the department "updated" to OpenLab which I must report is a major pain in the %#%&#^!$^@ ! I no longer can claim "expertise" as the saving data analysis changes and reprocessing are so convoluted. Stuff like "save Master method", "save Sequence method" which I understand, but what is the command "save Method", why can't Agilent make that clear? Plus, the system is very slow to log on, and we must log on about 10 times per day for each instrument.

Currently, Agilent is trying to get a new 7890B GC hooked up to the OpenLab, is having issues, multiple trips, etc.

Disclaimer: I haven't used any other company's chromatography software.

[Charles A. Burger]

Oh yeah. I have the newest version of that open lab stuff. So I can't speak to how Chemstation use to be.

If there is one thing I would like to learn, it is how to eliminate the drawn line for the Chromatogram and just look at the points I have gathered. Can anyone help with that?

[lmh]

If you haven't already done so, get yourself some decent training in Chemstation. The thing about this package is that its roots are so far back in history that they probably predate DOS, let alone Windows, and because Agilent have always had a strong philosophy of maintaining things the way they are (to avoid messing up experienced users with set protocols), a lot of Chemstation works in a very "unusual" way for a Windows program. Where else do you have to left-and-right-click simultaneously???

Once you get used to it, and know how it works, it's not that bad. But it's not like most windows programs where you can just sit down and get on with it because it does what you'd expect. It doesn't.

The other thing is the great divide between database based systems and file based systems. I find users of Chromeleon get on OK with Empower, for example, but anyone used to a database system struggles with file based schemes.

And golden rule with Chemstation GC: remember that when it started, computers were only just non-mechanical! Calculations were slooooow. As a result, Chemstation was designed to remember anything it could, rather than recalculating. To this day, it will endeavour to find some old integrated result that it might have, rather than reintegrate a chromatogram. It will endeavour to persuade you to let it use old results instead of new. If you change anything in your integrator settings or method, you will probably find that Chemstation's data processing (if you're using custom databases etc. for batch reporting) will happily retain the old values for calculated results or peak areas. The only solution I've found is to re-save the method with a new name, and when Chemstation pops up endless little boxes saying the data have been calculated previously, just cancel. Do not every click OK. 90% of the time, it's trying to persuade you to reuse old and invalid numbers.

Good luck.

[Charles A. Burger]

Thank you for that. That's valuable perspective.

[Yama001]

Culture shock is drag and software is written by programmers; have you ever met one who was actually interested in listening?

I am an old Chemstation hand (the GC/MS stuff); I had the same reaction encountering chromeleon . After a few data systems, it is clear we just have useful habits.

[nimbi63]

If you don't know the integration parameters for a chromatogram, the best starting place is to load the chromatogram, then select the menu Integration, AutoIntegrate. This will make several passes thru the data file, calculate noise, peakwidths, etc. and set the integration events to a good starting point. Sometimes this is all I have to do for a set of samples.

[nimbi63]

Go to http://www.chem.agilent.com, Click on "Training and Events" (you might have to select your country first). There are e-Seminars online, Events around the country, training classes to attend, and special on site training is available.