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Initial calibration and continuing calibration

Discussions about GC-MS, LC-MS, LC-FTIR, and other "coupled" analytical techniques.

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Hi, I am new to the industry, I am trying to learn EPA methods for Volatile organics, (method 624 and 8260B). I have an Tekmar atomx Purge and trap Agilend 7890A GC, and 5975C MSD. This is a new instrument I am getting up and running. An applications representative was able to achieve single digit RSD during training. I have been having issues passing the initial calibration, RSD% are not below 15%, not am able to consistantly accomplish this though.

On 9/30/11, I ran a large run consisting of a ICAL (1 to 100ug/L), MDL (at 1 and 2 ug/L), and many CCV (at 20 ug/L), for method 624. This time around I was able to achieve single digit %RSD. I had to through out the 1ug/L standard for the following compounds, because for some reason no peak was present when it generally is:
Bromomethane resulting in 14.54 %RSD
Methylene Chloride resulting in 5.52 %RSD
Bromodichloromethane resulting in 11.73 %RSD
The following compounds had a peak present for the 1ug/L standard, but threw out to acheive better %RSD:
1,3-dichlorobenzene resulting in 15.42 %RSD
1,4-dichlorobenzene resulting in 14.55 %RSD
I,2-dichlorobenzene resulting in 13.68 %RSD
For these compounds I changed to linear through (0,0), instead of linear, beacuse I was not able to acheve values with a regular linear fit for the MDL study. The MDL study is good at 1 and 2 ug/L.

In general the heavier, last family of compounds resulted in %RSD ranging from 13-36 %RSD

1,2-dichloroethane has and average RF of 0.057 and %RSD of 25.30
1,1,2,2-tetrachloroethane suddenly has poor response average RF 0.035 and %RSD of 32.79

I evaluated all the CCV's which I ran in the begining, middle, and end, by using the continuing calibration-evaluate file as continuing cal to screen.....some in the begining and end passed where the majority failed (not meeting the 20% DEV) in the middle.

The next day I made 4 CCV's all from the same volumetric flask(200mL) as usual, and all passed. I made another set today and yesturday and all failed.

Any suggestions?
Hi Jennifer,

I actually work in the Applications Lab at Tekmar. We should be able to help get you squared away, but I will need some additional information. If you could email me your purge and trap parameters and any other pertinent information regarding sample prep and GC/MS parameters, I can take a look at them and make some suggestions. My email address is nvalentine@teledyne.com.

You can always also call our Tech Support at 800.874.2004.

Look forward to hearing from you.
Nathan Valentine
Purge and Trap Product Line Manager
Teledyne Tekmar
http://www.teledynetekmar.com
http://www.teledynetekmarblog.com/
You're more than likely suffering from too much water getting to your source. There are quite a few posts relating to this issue. Look for VOC's. THM's and discussions rregarding 524.
If you're not using a 20M X 0.18 column you should consider getting one.
You can also call Agilents 800 number and tell them you are having issues with volatiles via P&T. they have a group working on it and have been very helpful to me.
Good luck.
Nathan,

Thank you I just sent you some information via email, please give me a call when you are free to talk.

Thanks!
Hi Jennifer,

I actually work in the Applications Lab at Tekmar. We should be able to help get you squared away, but I will need some additional information. If you could email me your purge and trap parameters and any other pertinent information regarding sample prep and GC/MS parameters, I can take a look at them and make some suggestions. My email address is nvalentine@teledyne.com.

You can always also call our Tech Support at 800.874.2004.

Look forward to hearing from you.
Bigbear,

Thank you, I am using the column you suggested and have been talking to Agilent too!



You're more than likely suffering from too much water getting to your source. There are quite a few posts relating to this issue. Look for VOC's. THM's and discussions rregarding 524.
If you're not using a 20M X 0.18 column you should consider getting one.
You can also call Agilents 800 number and tell them you are having issues with volatiles via P&T. they have a group working on it and have been very helpful to me.
Good luck.
Jennifer,

I have the exact same system, and identical calibration issues for method 8260.
We have been working with Agilent and Tekmar.
Never had this problem with previous Agilent GC/MS and tekmar purge and trap systems.
I am not sure that water management is an issue.
My internal standards are okay one day and then they they begin to drop off on subsequent runs.
My understanding is that if you have water issues your internal standard response will increase.
I am trying some different things this week based on recommendations from Agilent.
I was curious if you have had any success with your problems
I'm sure your issues relate to water. I too had come from earlier instruments and had no problems until I switched to a 5973. I used a 5970 for years and took for ganted that the jet sep. was my water management tool. At the time of the switch I was using a Aquatek 70 and Velocity. Worked well for years with the 5970. Soon after switching GC/MS's my method went down hill!
The new MS's are more sensitive and are affected by water. The sources "activate" with repeat exposure to water so you have to do source cleanning more often ( I get 2-300 runs between cleaning).
I have had good luck using the Agilent " max emission current" tune.
gmlvt,

I was currious to know more about you experience with this issue to resolve it, please let me know...

Thanks!
Jennifer,

I have the exact same system, and identical calibration issues for method 8260.
We have been working with Agilent and Tekmar.
Never had this problem with previous Agilent GC/MS and tekmar purge and trap systems.
I am not sure that water management is an issue.
My internal standards are okay one day and then they they begin to drop off on subsequent runs.
My understanding is that if you have water issues your internal standard response will increase.
I am trying some different things this week based on recommendations from Agilent.
I was curious if you have had any success with your problems
If I had water management issues in my source, wouldn't I see water in my MSD if I scanned for it.....additionally, wouldn't it show in my tune's and in the water/air leak check?
If I had water management issues in my source, wouldn't I see water in my MSD if I scanned for it.....additionally, wouldn't it show in my tune's and in the water/air leak check?
The small amounts of water pass through when you are desorbing the sample. Only then will you see a lot of water if scanning that low. The problem usually comes from the water hanging around in the vacuum system and on the detector. I have several of these systems but using Encon purge and traps and fought the same problems for years. One thing that I have found that really helps is to replace the normal electron multiplier with the ETP rectangular film type. This made my calibrations much more stable.

Another thing that can be causing problems is trying to calibrate over such a large range. I can usually get a good linear calibration from 1ppb to 400ppb, but some have to be on a narrower range that even that. The only time I could calibrate from 1-1000ppb was when I was using a 105m 053id column and a jet separator.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask.
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
James,

Can you please explain the differnence between the normal electron multiplier and the ETP rectangular film type?
James,

Can you please explain the differnence between the normal electron multiplier and the ETP rectangular film type?
The normal one that usually ships with the Agilent (prior to the new triple axis ones) were the round K&M electron multipliers. ETP is a company that makes a replacement part that uses a film surface for the electron cascade instead of the tubular horn as in the others. I have no idea why they behave differently, but that switch seemed to solve a lot of our problems here.

This is the ETP type we are using. http://www.sge.com/products/electron-multipliers

This is the original K&M Type. http://www.mascom-bremen.de/html/en/2/a ... ticle.html
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
James,

I do not see a product for Agilent 5975C Triple Axis Detector....can you offer more input please? Which MSD do you have?

Thanks
We have the 5973 and 5975B, there may not be an option for the 5975C with triple axes detectors. :(
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
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