Chromatography Forum

Okay, background: MiNd has recently purchased a nice hpgc 5890 II with an 3396 Integrator, half dozen new needles, half dozen new capillary's, as well as a UniChrom for computer.

The battle that MiNd has been fighting is trying to get the GC up & running with computer & related software.. MiNd has put considerable time and study into this. Below is only a sample portion of my journal on and during such to demonstrate the effort and dedication I have in this..

My beggin question is for any help with RS232 pinouts for the analog Signal outputs from the GC with it noted that I have a 19242-80060 Comm Board installed not that it's relevant from what I've concluded thus far.

So should you find it in your heart to picture or share the pinouts from an RS232 cable for the 5890, I'd gladly appreciate it but in the alternative, I'll have it figured out within the next couple days (via the hard way)..

------portion of my journal below--------
As for reading the manuals, I've had to stoop down to that primitive action and thus have been doing a damn lot of manual studying.. {MiNd just knew learning to read would pay off some day}

Thus far I've learned of another program "EnviroQuant" which is usable with the HPGC 5890 as well, in addition to ChemStation.

And you are right hest, programming of the GC (through the keypad & display on the GC) is relatively easy.

So far, yeppers, MiNd is having 'fun'.. He thinks...
-MiNd

P.S. More links:
An excellent link describing GC foundation & concepts: http://www.gmu.edu/departments/SRIF/tut ... gc-ms2.htm
An GC or LC {Chromatograph} software called PeakSimple, demo d/l:
http://www.quadrexcorp.com/new/download.htm
This company has some cool software & stuff for GC: http://www.unichrom.com/dle.php
Evantage has software called SimDist2000 http://envantage.com.cnchost.com/

*MiNd will continue updating with links to sites and/or software applicable to this topic of GC*

And for those whom have the cash and want to hop on the bandwagon, MiNd see's used GC's for sale or auction online from $3k-$7k plus an addtl $1k swim would have to spend on accessories & supplies for the GC, so for as little as $4k *realistically* you could rid MiNd of his feelings that's he's all alone on this mission..
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Oh yeah, MiNd shouldn't have handed that one on a platter to ya..
UniChrom (d/l'able demo version) looks quite promising, besides the other cool software by that company including their tcp/ip networking software for a GC.. UniChrom is the winnder thus far which MiNd has found.
------new post------------
MiNd now offers up (what remains of) his soul for a copy of CS..

Ya can't beat that deal, a soul.. Dog damnit, all MiNd wants is some GC software and continues to fail in the search mission for such..
-MiNd
{Update, MiNd has chosen to go with UniChrom for software}
-----new post ------
MiNd just found online the pin outs for the 5890: (this data was found on UniChroms website) ; (The 19257 is an HPIB/RS-232C communications board)

RS-232 cable for HP-5890 with 19257-60010
25-pin male (GC)
7 - Signal ground; 2 - TD; 3 - RD

25-pin female (PC)
7 - Signal ground; 2 - TD; 3 - RD

9-pin female (PC)
5 - Signal ground; 3 - TD; 2 - RD

------new post------
PerkinElmer makes a GC software called TotalChrom which is apparently pretty popular.

AcidLabs makes a software called ACD ChromManager.
------new post------
An Chromatography forum: http://www.sepsci.com/chromforum/index.php

AcidLabs has a bunch of software for d/l including FREEWARE ChemSketch and related apps: http://www.acdlabs.com/download/
-----new post-----
Alright, MiNd now has a GC software for use with the HPGC;
onto the next step which is trying to get the GC interfaced to the puter which so far has proven to be other than simple.

It would appear to MiNd that (were his Integrator working) utilizing the 'computer' port and connection on the Integrator is not an option as this is nothing but a remote terminal control of the Integrator.. For those of you back from BBS day's like MiNd, it's the same underlying concept. With the Integrator utilizing a programming language/commands similar to the ol' BASIC programming language.

That put MiNd back at step one trying to figure out how to get that GC interfaced to the puter. MiNd has been studying his butt off in that mission and here goes some of the results thus far.

MiNd understands the GC need or should have a RS232 or HPIB/RS232 comm board installed in it.. Okay, super, now how does one figure out if that is the case? Next, where are the connectors/interface for such board? And finally what are the pin outs for such? Those are the questions MiNd has posed and is trying to awnser..

The INET network is of no use as far as MiNd can tell.. Bummer, cause MiNd's GC has a functioning INET & cables..

This topic has MiNd studying ch 5 of his 'Reference Manual' on the 5890, which is entitled Signal Output.

MiNd has an ACTIVE and functioning Sig 2 on his GC opposed to an "NOT INSTALLED" warning on the GC's lcd display.

On page 5-1 of said manual, it is stated that Sig 1 is always provided with the GC; however, Sig 2 is optional and only present IF an optional Comm Board is installed such as Option 550/19242A (Comm Intface Board) or 560/19254A (rs-232).

Per UniChroms site (http://www.unichrom.com/hpx890/hpx890e.shtml) they state option 19242 (no A afterwards) as being RS-232 communications..

So MiNd is of the impression that whatever optional comm board (19242A or 19254A) be installed, either should provide RS232 communications..

Simply put, if there is a functional Sigal 2, you should have Rs232 communications ability, as both are analog, is MiNd's opinion thus far..

Now that MiNd has gotten this far, he has no idea how to interface this. Theory's are the proprietary Signal 2 connection on the top of the GC which is below the Signal 1 & Remote proprietary connectors.

MiNd will update this as he continues to further tredge along with this project.
-MiNd

Update:
Alright, now MiNd is peturbed! MiNd is positive that the Signal 2 proprietary connector on the top of the GC is where the RS232 connection can be made. Three wires: TD, RD, & Ground. The PC end of the wiring previously posted in this thread by MiNd.

The pinouts for the Signal connectors on the GC unit are NOT in any of the f**king manuals! In the Site Prep/Installation manual on pages 2-17 through 2-19 come the closest to this topic and relate the 'cable' (which would plug into the Signal 1/2 conector) wires as White + (High); Black - (Low); and Orange Ground.

MiNd also is of the suspicion that the Signal 1 is analog and the voltage outputs (which are discussed in MiNds 5890 manuals) would be compatible with a serial interface thus negating any optional comm boards for those whom might not have such in their 5890 or equivalent.

Ground won't be a problem to determine with the multimeter..
As for the xmit & rcv data lines, MiNd is now considering dismantling the right side of the GC to get to the main processing and related boards and see if it might be as simple as their only being 3 such wires/connection to the signal output connectors (doubt it) which would make for figurin out/guessing the TD & RD very easy.

Any help here would be appreciated! If you got a 5890/similar, nows the time (again) to speak up and/or picture your signal interface cable for MiNd which will give him more info to work with.

----new post-------
MiNd has began dissasembly of his GC.. Four screws allowed removal of the right side panel revealing the main pc board..

From this MiNd learned that the INET (HP Instrument Network) connectors on the top of the GC are directly a part of an optional comm board installed in the GC. One of the primary IC's on this board has a sticker which says 19242, obvious this is a 19242 comm board providing the INET interface.

Interestingly, MiNd took notice that the Signal 1 and Signal 2 connectors are attached to the main board though MiNd KNOWS that the Signal 2 output/connector only works when an optional comm board is installed. So MiNd still does NOT know the pin outs of those ****ers.
The labor to remove the main board would be pretty substantial that MiNd doesn't want to bother with that *yet*..

MiNd will probably probe each pin with the multimeter or an O-Scope in search of the data lines which should reveal them easily.

But MiNd had (in chronological order) a wonderful beer buzz, walk, & dinner prior to chromatograph dismantling now being the current project followed by the break to write this thread update..
--------------- end of journal repost -------------------------------------------
-MiNd

I'll try to help a little. If your 5890 and computer already have HPIB boards installed, you'll know it as their jacks should be clearly visible from the rear; you should already have an HPIB cable (you'd need one) so you can check its ends to see what it should look like (it looks more like a 36 Centronix than a separate-pin connector). we just decomissioned a 5890A which went to an integrator, and the Signal 1 cable from the top right of the GC went to the integrator. And by the way, if your words in your journal are typical, my company wouldn't consider hiring you; this is a respectable board: watch your language here, do your cussing elsewhere.

With regard to my own unit, the GC & Integrator with INET cables is the extent of hardware, my point being the computer; software; and interfacing is all aftermarket and my current project at hand.

I do see and did come to the opinion this is not only a 'respectable' board but pretty in depth with regards to chromatography.

I personally have always had little/less respect for individuals whom jump online or on a board and just ask question after question rather than read manuals, study, seek education, etc.

With that said, my point behind reposting a portion of my 'odd' journal of my GC computer interfacing project was to demonstrate my committment, study, effort, and apptitude in hopes of showing that I am just not another person asking some question easily awnsered by doing a little reading.

I sincerely apologize IF my journal repost (for above said reasons) offended yourself or any others.

As for my GC, where I stand is needing to determine the pinouts on the signal outputs and from there I will quickly be able to construct the cabling necessary for computer interface for use with third party software.

I have kept a journal of this in order to share/help any others who might end up on this same project/path which is to have a 5890/similar and decide they wish to interface with a computer for data interpretation. Accomplishing that interface itself, let alone picking a software suite which is compatible and meets such users needs is quite a challenge overall.

I'm sure that upon my completion of this 'challenge' my journals documenting my resulting success will help numerous others whom have the same goal with their 5890's.

P.S. I'm quite happy with my work and can assure you that your company isn't the only one whom wouldn't hire me (despite that I wouldn't be apply'ing in the first place). I do speak my mind without fear of loosing a job, friend, client, or work and I love that freedom though it's very uncommon in our society.

Thanks in advance for any help with those pin-outs,

UPDATE: MiNd now sees some portions of his journal repost that could offend another and has edited some of that post thus removing those potentionally offensive portions.

Okay, quick update..

I have probed and determined the two data lines though not yet which is which (xmit/rcv) as of yet..

This forum not hosting/allowing picture uploads is why my posts/reposts are without my substantial picture collection; however, for this pinout I went to the trouble of hosting the picture in order to share this extremely valuable information with others that might be in a similar situation as myself with their GC and computer interfacing.





EDIT: I have YET to successfully have my GC functioning with computer, software, and such Interface. DO NOT take my pinout's or technical info (prior to my confirming it's accuracy as a result of fully testing such interface & application) as gospel! Use such information at your OWN RISK.

I have this old pc file that I made while connecting a 7673 Auto sampler to the 5890 and the Perkin Elmer 970 Interface Box. I had been using Turbochrom at the time. I don't know how much info this has, but MiNd is welcome to it.
The closest I got to a pin out in 5890 Plug
1 remote start input
2 ground
3 remote config input
4 ground
5 ready output
6 ready output
7 start output
8 start output
9 ready output
10 ready output
11 ground
12 remote input[/img]

Thank you Les for the input!

Though I don't believe that is of any help for my specific goal..
What I believe you are describing is the REMOTE connector on the top of the GC above the Signal outputs from the number of pins (12) of your shared pinout.

At this point I'm ready to take testing further of the Analog Signal outputs.
I intend on running the GC's built-in test chromatogram which is accessed by sig-9-enter or similar if my memory serves me correctly (just consult the manual). Such test run in order to simulate signal outputs of which I plan on analyzing with meter & scope to try and determine those data lines.

Not having any wires/connectors to fit the signal output recepticles on the top of the GC, I will be improvising. In quick thinking the most efficient connector I could scavenge around here was the front panel controls wiring from a scrap computer case. Such as the LED/SLEEP switch or led wire & connectors in which each are two pin side by side. These such connectors fit perfectly vertically or horizontally over the signal output pins on the GC. For demonstration purposes, I have pictured the two I will be using myself.

Okay, I just finished running the GC through it's repetitive test chromatogram output. While doing such I was monitoring signal and voltage outputs on what I have labeled as "Data" lines on my above pinout.

It is to be noted that I performed such on the Signal 2 output.

During the GC generated test output signal (test chromatogram) the data lines did go high with their voltages being relative to the Signal output being monitored on the GC LCD.

Okay, just double checking.. What I have as labeled above in my pinout as Data lines (2) are the TD data line. The two unlabeled pins are the RD (rcv) data lines. Note that just like multiple grounds, there are multiple TD/RD data pins. You only need use one set of TD/RD data line pins as the additional are only redundant.

*heh* As usual, when I do seek help, it never results in the solution rather as always, I have to do it myself and the 'hard way'..

Hopefully my research on this (still continuing) helps others as well..

Below are more pictures:

Did you ever tried the http://www.chem.agilent.com to get the info? I have usually find all the cable and pinout schemes there (just enter the P/N in the search there, you may need to register to get access to some technical literature)

If you did not gave up fully, you can give a look to our software Clarity: it can control the 5890 including the digital data acquisition over RS232 line. You can download demo version and find additional informations from www.dataapex.com or you can contact me by e-mail.

We usually use the 19257-60015 HP-IB/RS232 board for communicating, tried the 19242-60030 RS232 board recently, but were not succesfull yet.

Your 19242-60080 is INET board - will not allow you to communicate over RS232

Ivan Vins

DataApex