Shimadzu 8030 LC/MS/MS

[isuphysics]

Has anybody have any experience with the new Shimadzu 8030 Triple Quad? Our lab is in the process of looking at one, and the price we were given is so low, that it makes us worry about what we are getting compared to Aglient, Waters, and ABSciEx models.

[Yves]

Hello,

Shimadzu has been recognized to manufacture very robust instruments, the Nexera is already in many CROs and their Prominence UFLC is everywhere.

Many LCMS-2020 are already on the market which have many of the technologies behind the LCMS-8030. Shimadzu has a long history in Mass spec and brought innovativations and one of their researcher even got a Nobel price in mass spec... no other manufacturer can say this!

Even if you mention some major players above, some are really behind when it is time to LCMSMS and are very slow and worse have a lot of carryover...

Shimadzu is very present in GCMS in the USA too... and used mainly for military purpose.

For the Nexera U-HPLC, it is "by far" the best U-HPLC available on the market... the LCMS-8030 is capable of fast acquisition and scan which is essential for such a front-end. so it is especially made for fast qualitative and quantitative analysis. The sensitivity will be very good on the LCMS-8030 for most applications where a need for very high throughput and good sensitivity is needed.

I would suggest you read the "Lab Manager Magazine". A very good look of history of mass spec p.74 and a good article on what to look for U-HPLC p.20... http://photos.labmanager.com/magazinePD ... r-2011.pdf.

Of course there are couple of adds (stuffed with irrelevant marketting information) there but if you stick to what is important you will get to what is important to look at for the U-HPLC and you will also see how Shimadzu is very present in brigning new technologies on the market.

Hope this helps,

Yves

[Hfranz]

Yves is trying so hard to persuade you... for me this shows how desperate Shimadzu is (I assume Yves is a Shimadzu guy...).

[JGK]

Has anybody have any experience with the new Shimadzu 8030 Triple Quad? Our lab is in the process of looking at one, and the price we were given is so low, that it makes us worry about what we are getting compared to Aglient, Waters, and ABSciEx models.

The best advice is to sort out a samples + a method For LC-MS-MS and visit each vendor and set up your method on their demo machine. This will give you a true comparison of the instrument rather than relying on sales info.

Plus it may give you an insight into the ease of operation on a day to day basis.

[H.Thomas]

I can say absolutely nothing about the triple quad, but we have a 2010 single quad. This is a neither robust nor sophisticated instrument and it was not not even cheap. The whole design of the ESI-Source is problematic - adjustment of the spray with two screws is troublesome. We often have problems with clogging of the capillaries inside the source. Tuning of the instruments takes 1-2 work days. They sold so few MS-instruments, that there are very few experienced service technicians...the one responsible for our area spent most of the time of his visits in our lab on the phone with his boss...

I've heard roumors, that the design has improved - but Shimadzu will have a hard time to convince me that it now can compete with the sensitive, rock-stable and absolutely unproblematic Agilent.

[isuphysics]

Thank you all for your response and views. I've looked at ABI, Waters, and Shimadzu. Shimadzu was the cheapest which I like, but my other colleques tells me they are new to the triple quad industry, which makes me nervous, while they can sell me at a low price they will not be able to support the instrument as far as service & application support, unlike ABI & Waters. I will probably purchase from ABI.

[jvjkorn]

Shimadzu is always the cheapest one in every type of instruent, that is thier major strategy. I recomend you to send samples to every supplier you have AB Sciex, Agilent, Thermo and Waters, and yes Shimadzu is very new in QQQ as Agilent was few years ago, but now Agilent has very robust instruments it all depends on the development if you wait some few years it shure shimadzu will improve.

[Yves]

Shimadzu "" is not""" new to TQ or mass spec... a Nobel price for development of ESI source 2002, rings a bell? First commercialized MALDI TOF ? Pls read a bit on the evolution of mass spec my friends...

Best advice is to send your sample to major manufacturers (agree with above)... BTW I heard rumors... is not science... and if any issues big manufacturers like Waters, Agilent and Shimadzu "THEY WILL FIX IT... if it is not on warranty all manufacturers will charge big money... so my understanding is that ""rumors""" is cheapo get cheapo and complains... many Agilent, Waters, Thermo and Shimadzu are broken and on the bench doing nothing !

Good luck in getting the best instrument for your app !

Yves

[Yves]

BTW what is your app?

[hermo71]

Hi to all,

Shimadzu is still far away from competition with its triple quad!!! Low sensitivity, problems in real matrix, linear collision cell, etc etc...
The only advantage is the price, but quality and performance are very low if compared to its direct competitors (entry level instruments like Waters TQD, Thermo Access Max, Agilent 6410B or 6430 and ABI 3200).
The fastest triple quad? No, Agilent is the same (500 MRM/sec) and Thermo very close (333 MRM/sec). How that speed can help you if it is blind in real matrix and if you need 20 minutes to reprocess the data with its software (not user friendly at all).

Hermo

[Yves]

500 MRM per time segment...

ask for user manual... data... you'll see what is really the loop time on the other manufacturers...

and no Shimadzu is not always the cheapest, recently a Agilent LCMSMS was 20k cheaper than other manufacturers ! Look at public info and tenders... and if you happen to have a deal ! JUMP ON IT !

Here nobody tries to help the person that originally posted the question.... it is just bad mouth (which means effraid of)... and rumors... is not science like I said

Very kind regards,

[jvjkorn]

Yves, I think we all were trying to help, you are the one that is trying to sell more Shimadzu LCMS.

[Yves]

Well, I guess it is more the opposite... but facts are facts... Science is science... Shimadzu is now the leader in U-HPLC and is the first to have released a TQ for this technology... and 333 MRM is slower... and 500 MRM """per time segment""" is not """per second"""... but just a way to hide that the instrument is slower... how about polarity switch? How about scan speed? have you look at some data presented by Shimadzu and other manufacturers? And please ask what counter measures the LC has to eliminate carryover....

Certainly not as good as Shimadzu

Best again... submit samples and you will see... but yes I do like Shimadzu ! Like other may like other brands... my father used to really like his Chevrolet Sprint but I prefer a Ferrari when it is time for speed !

Kind regards,

[hermo71]

Yves,

really, you live in another world..a world where Shimadzu has no competitor.

First, I'm a manager of a central government lab, and I manage dozens of public tender every year....so I think to have more experience than you on instrument prices. Shimadzu 8030 is the cheapest in every tender, also offering one year more of warranty.

Second, I'm also a good scientist, with years of experience in LCMS. You say science is science, I agree with you...in fact science says that 8030 is less performant than competition in real matrix (vegetables, meat,urine..). I have data of a real demo on toxins, pesticides, hormone done for a public tender...and Shimadzu was the worse and went out from the tender!!!
What about curved collision cell for noise reduction? What about heated ESI? What about H-SRM or something like data dependant scanning? Is Shimadzu cell zero-cross talk certified? etc.. etc...

So, as a Scientist with real data in my hands, I would say that actually Shimadzu would be my last choice.

[Yves]

First, we were supposed to talk about instrument and not how we feel or we are. You are a very frustrated person ! You would be very happy if you'd have a Shimadzu instrument ! If you are dealing with a dozen of gouverment tenders, a year, I deal with more than this in a time segment ! . Hah ah ah !!!

I deal with hundreds of Shimadzu users a year, So you are just a funny face on internet !

So since it went to personal argumentation. I guess we did not really help the person asking for a question, which was originally the purpose of this topic. Frustrated or not, the person that you are, SHIMADZU IS THE VERY BEST INSTRUMENT I EVER SEEN!!!! And I've worked with all!!!

MAY YOU HAVE THE CHANCE TO BE HAPPY LIKE I AM!!!

CHEERS,

Yves