Instrument control software

[Phillhere]

Looking for a bit of advice/help.. concerning instrument control software:
I have a number of different vendor hardware from Agilent 1100's, older waters systems and several 2695's

I need to figure which is the best way to go... which leads to the following questions...ideally I would like to see one or both of the following options actually workng before any major outlay of cash, because we have previously coughed up for an all in one solution which ended up being nothing of the sort.

so which is the best way to go?..

empower 2 to control agilent kit, and what are the requirements, as in cabling, interface cards etc and where is the software available from. i.e waters, agilent or possibly other sources? also what sort of outlay would I be looking at?

or
chemstation control of waters kit, again what are the requirements, cabling interface cards etc, and where is the software available from again agilent or waters, and at what price?

any help would be greatly appeciated!

[lmh]

here you will get lots of good opinions on how well different software controls different instruments (and also, very important: how well it processes the data). But to find out what exactly you need, and how much it will cost, you should definitely invite a sales rep from each company to come and view your existing set-up and write you a quote. It won't cost you anything to get a quote, and it's the definitive answer.

[Phillhere]

sadly, I have already contacted a couple of the "usual suspects" but have been dismayed at the lack of interest they have shown. I am finding that i have to constantly chase them and am still no further on.
Its almost as if they dont want to bother, must be the time of year?

[DR]

I don't know why they wouuld not all be eager to make a sale... small fish, big pond?

At any rate, if you are not already running Empower, I would suggest that you go with Empower 3 and LAC/Es running Windows 7. This will prevent an expensive headache not too far into the future when the long used Equinox boards (allowing serial connections and instrument control for 1100 & 1200 series Agilents) go by the wayside in favor of a different arrangement not supported beyond 32bit platforms. This will also allow for ethernet support of all of your Waters (and Agilent) stuff that does Ethernet. If you have lots of IEEE devices (2487 and 2996 detectors, especially), look into whether or not they will be supported with this OS. 2695s can have ethernet support added (for older ones) but it is not cheap.

[varossf]

HI, the OpenLAB CDS EZChrom (not ChemStation) is multi vendor control and controls also the Waters equipment, even when equipped with IEEE. If you need more info please send me an email directly, to be found in my profile .

[unmgvar]

have you made a specific list of all your hardware?
you will need to know for each module their firmware as well
you need to check for every module if it is controled by the software and especially the DADs with 3D spectras

you will need to think also about the fact that you will need to change PCs
old waters systems use GPIB cards. see about that as well
probaly go for windows 7 as the operating system.

for chromeleon and I think to remember also for ezchrom/openlab you will anyway need to invest in new GPIB cards for those instrument that uses them

have you involved your IT department? if not do it all the time.

in combination to seeing that the software can control the hardware you also need to see a demo on how it performs for your users, and also what to expect different from moving to one software you are used to to a new one

there is a lot more to consider but this is a good start

[Csaba]

Hi Phillhere,
Controlling other vendors’ instruments is an area where you have to evaluate the software carefully.

As unmgvar points out, you will have to check every detail and list every detail about the equipment you want to control including the firmware and connections. Empower 2 control of Agilent 1100 is not the best. Empower 3 does not even support Waters 996 detectors and many other older Waters equipment; see the list that Waters provide.

As varossf points out, Chemstation is not an option but EZChrom is.

In my opinion, the only two choices you have are EZChrom and Chromeleon. Make a complete URS and let the vendors set up and demonstrate that they are able to control your instrument.

I have used Chromeleon v6.8 to control old Agilent 1100 equipment, Waters 2695, 996, 2996 and the UV detector (2487?) and it worked well. I used NI USB-GPIB controllers for the Waters instruments. (I don’t have that much experience of EZChrom.)

Hope it helps!

[benW]

sadly, I have already contacted a couple of the "usual suspects" but have been dismayed at the lack of interest they have shown. I am finding that i have to constantly chase them and am still no further on.
Its almost as if they dont want to bother, must be the time of year?

Hi Phillhere,
The "usual suspects" probably find it difficult to work with your specific requirements for an installation base.

I am sure I can help you with your problems. As there is a lot of questions and details, it would be best to contact me directly, and see what works best.
Cheers,
Ben

[DR]

...Empower 3 does not even support Waters 996 detectors and many other older Waters equipment...

To be fair, this is not the result of any decision made by Waters, but rather the result of Microsoft (specifically, Windows 7) droppinig support of several older I/O boards and systems used in older Waters equipment. As Intel moves inexoribly toward a 64 bit world and Microsoft follows suit with their OS, some things will be left by the wayside. These same OS-related limitations likely impact OpenLAB CDS EZChrom if run under an OS that does not find or recognize any drivers for these older boards.

[unmgvar]

DR
I kind of not agree with you
996 detectors are connected to PC via GPIB cards
waters by deciding to use a non of the shelf card design allowed itself "not to let" the 996 be controlled further
there is no reason for that since other vendors created a control of 996 using standard cards with XP and PCI slots and Vista (so also 7)
it is really waters that was lazy trying to give 996 codes for empower 2 and 3, just like windows for their own products, simply in order to "bully" clients to upgrade
they forgot that customers do not like to be bullied into junking out something that is working and still useful

here is a list for open lab available 3.3.2 controls 996
http://www.chem.agilent.com/cag/Prod/LI ... rmware.pdf
and CM7.1 controls as well it is shown in the help files that i have

[avitan]

Look at Clarity from DataApex

[DR]

DR
I kind of not agree with you
996 detectors are connected to PC via GPIB cards
waters by deciding to use a non of the shelf card design allowed itself "not to let" the 996 be controlled further
there is no reason for that since other vendors created a control of 996 using standard cards with XP and PCI slots and Vista (so also 7)...

Please keep in mind, the 996 was introduced in approximately 1993 (when Ethernet came in twisted pairs, USB was just the ticker symbol for U.S. Bancorp and for not a lot less than $900, you could get a 60MHz Pentium processor). Not too many people were worried about ever having to write 64 bit drivers for GPIB cards at the time.

[unmgvar]

DR you are right and it is almost always the case. nobody thinks of development over a time span of 7-9 years
and still Dionex and SSI/agilent, spent the time to develop the drivers
NI has GPIB working with USB and 64 bits, so it is not such a problem to do it if you want to.
on the other hand Waters took the Microsoft approach,
stop support and then customer will simply buy new hardware when PC brakes down. they forgot that customer then goes and buys another brand for "purposeful money milking laziness" like this

[Bull76]

I have used agilent and Waters equipment, Empower 2 will control a 996. Agilent equipment 1100 and 1200's can be controlled and very well in empower. Many customers who use Agilent equipment like the fact that Agilent equipment can be controlled by Empower.
Agilent equipment with a Jet direct card just needs an ICS of 1.06 the latest and then a firmware upgrade to A6.xx. All Waters Equipment controlled in empower 1 will and can be controlled in Empower 2. The benefit of ethernet control is that you don't need extra specialised cards, just LAN cards.
But if your using Buslace cards then that is okay too.
Empower 3 is new and out there, but so is Empower 2 FR5, just as affective.

Really up to what software you prefer to use. If your not sure and the sales person picks up on this then they are probably just putting you down as looking for info and not really looking to upgrade. If you set time lines with them then they should realise you are serious to upgrade.

What type of instruments have you and what are you currently running in relation to software?

[Csaba]

All Waters Equipment controlled in empower 1 will and can be controlled in Empower 2.

According to the Waters document, http://www.waters.com/webassets/cms/lib ... 1163en.pdf, not all old Waters equipment supported in Empwer 1 is also supported in Empower 2. I know one company that switched to Chromeleon instead of upgrading to Empower 2 beacuse it did not support Waters 715 and the high cost of mandatory upgrading of 2690 to 2695 while Chormeleon supported and supports Waters 715 and 2690.