Column Advise Pls

[cat4lyst]

Greeting Chromatographers!

I just reaching out for some advise/wisdom. I considering trying out a fairly new (maybe ~1-2 years old) column product. I wanted to probe anyone here whom has used it for pros/cons, and if it was worth it. I am specifically talking about the zebron inferno columns from phenomenex. All I have found on the net was corporate propaganda, and I would like to hear some real success/failure stores. Hopefully this type of post is not taboo here.

They advertize this column as having extreme temp limits; IE 410 C. I am considering using for 8015b with hopes we could help accelerate cleanup or even eliminate carryover problems by running a higher final ramp temp.

what do you all think?

thanks

[chromatographer1]

The problem with propaganda is the kernel of truth within it.

Temperature limits can be defined in many diverse ways.

Use of 1 hour at limit will destroy the column.

Use of 1 hour at limit will damage the column @ 30% loss of effectiveness.

Use of 1 hour at limit will damage the column with a loss of use from 3 months to 1 month.

Etc etc etc

Chemistry is chemistry. Unless the phase is not based on silicon, the phase begins to degrade at temperatures below 400 degrees.

Trace amounts of oxygen leaking into the column will damage it quickly.

There are many variable factors. The best bet is trial and error.

Try it, if it works, buy another. If not, buy someone else's.

Stories whispered into your ear are only worth the paper they are written on.

best wishes,

Rod

[cat4lyst]

Thanks Ron, your advise is insightful as usual. Your skepticism is quite apparent as well. As is mine... Seems to good to be true, at least for our application. I was really hoping to connect to someone whom actually experienced these columns at work, maybe pushed them to the limit. Apparently agilent has something like this as well.

Just expand the points you raised, the manufacture suggests these columns are "stable" to 430 c. Furthermore the are advertised capable to running 400C max isothermal. Not sure on the lifetime at these conditions. Obviously we assuming there are no gas problems or other negatives. The rep i have spoken with advised me the difference is; a "special" polymide coating which presumably shields the silica for a higher rating and their "propitiatory" bonding technique which does the same for the stationary phase. I am just talking about a 5%phenyl phase.

But as you said trial and error is the only way. If your at all interested I'd be happy follow up with my results. some sample columns are in route.

thanks again

[chromatographer1]

Well, I am interested.

best wishes,

Rodney

[AICMM]

cat4lyst,

Two comments. For all the really high temp stuff I have worked with, metal columns with very, very thin phases. And then watch them slowly die no matter what. The nature of the beast. Ask the competition about the Inferno's and they will all show you pictures of cooked outer coatings.... However, nothing beats personal experience.

Second, if you are interested in throwing away the really heavy stuff, why not a mid-point backflush? Agilent has an application note on this concept as I am sure others do. Only caveat to this is that you have to have a new enough GC to have the mid-point pressure control.

Best regards,

AICMM

[8jw8]

I was never a fan of Phenomenex columns for GC. We stuck with Restek for our 8015s

[cat4lyst]

Thanks for the response guys.
@8jw8: I agree, Restek seems to be hard to beat most of the time.

@AICMM am going to ask for some of those pictures... I would be entertained after all the hype they have been feeding me. Guess I will see soon enough. I don't know what conditions you were running the Metal columns at, but I am thinking starting with a 400 degree final ramp temp that holds for a duration no longer than 15 min, pretty basic ramp program up to that point. From experience on the metal column, is that extreme in your opinion?

Mid-point backflush is a new concept to me but I do like it. I am running this on 5890's. Even though its a dino; implementing this seems a)feasible & b)fun! I will be taking a serious look at this for the future.
Thanks for your advice, its appreciated

[chromatographer1]

While it might be easier to buy two 15meter columns and have one as a backflush column, with a little experiment you might find that a 5 meter backflush column might save you time and still be an effective column. Then you really won't have to make any special regulating of the head pressure and you will get a faster and better backflush.

You will implement the BF earlier than with a 15 meter precolumn but you only need enough separation to separate the peaks you will to elute from the peak(s) you wish to backflush.

With the shorter BF column you can backflush longer and at a higher flow rate for a more effective backflush.

Just something to keep in mind.

best wishes,

Rod

[Hornet]

Hello, i use Zebron Inferno 5-HT for epa 8015 and C10-C40+ hydrocarbons on GC/FID and so far it worked pretty well. The bleed is very low and it is stable even at 380 °C (it's the highest temp i reached so far, i don't really need 400+ °C yet).
We use only phenomenex GC columns in our lab (we are very happy with prices and seller's support) and they always worked well, the only problem i had with the inferno 5-HT was the time it needed to condition, it needed many more hours than any other column i used to get a flat baseline.
Usually it takes me 3-4 hours while with inferno i had to leave it overnight, and i hate to condition a column overnight.

In the end, it's a strong column that doesn't fear bakeouts or heavy compunds and in my opinion it's worth a try, it may fit your needs very well.
I'm sorry i don't really know any info about its lifetime because i started using it 2 months ago, also i don't know how it works compared to competitors since we only use phenomenex unless it's a GCMS.

[AICMM]

cat4lyst,

Don't personally have pictures (not having used the column) only seen other vendors posters. Take it with a grain of salt. In my case, my customer uses their metal clads up to 425 for ten minutes. They get anywhere between 400 and 1000 injections on column under these conditions depending on what types of samples they are shooting (C100+.) Always 5 meter columns.

Do you have EPC on your 5890?

Best regards,

AICMM

[Forse]

I have used a ZB-35 Inferno, 30m, column a bit. Handels ramping to 400 C, and staying there for 10 min. fine. Bleed seems fine too.

Just got a ZB-5 Inferno, 60m, for an old GC-MS. Only used it for a few weeks, but same experience as above.