Help..urgent.. Lc/ms/ms which is better?

[zelda855]

Hello, I need your help: i'm looking for a lc/ms/ms system, triple quad.
I valued many purposes, and now i'm deciding which of these two is better (I must decide tomorrow)...
-waters uplc aquity (binary pump)/ tqd mass spectrometer, esi/apci combined source;
-thermo uhplc accela 1250 (quaternary pump)/ quantum access, esi/apci combined source.
I will use that for drugs of abuse discovery, pharmaceutical, multiresidual, aflatoxins, ocra, ecc...
I need an easy to use system, user-friendly, with good performance.
What's the better? The price is exactly the same.
Thanks.

[richiekichi]

toss a coin?

[zelda855]

Thanks

[oscarBAL]

How is the service in your zone?

I do not know Thermo but I worked with TQD for a short period of time as user and also as sales and I know intellistart for the TQD is a pluss; besides this instrument has been really tested at least here in Central America (maybe very diferent location tahn yours) I would choose Waters, ABI, Agilent and Thermo at that order.

[labstephan]

Hello,

I`m working with a Thermo TSQ Ultra for nearly two years without any big problems. Or better to say no problems. We are doing multiantibiotic (80 substances + internal standards) screening out of kidney extract (very dirty stuff). We are cleaning, on a regular basis once a week (approx. 500 samples), the sweep gas cone and the ion transfer tube. Once a moth we are venting the system to clean skimmer and tube lens.

If you are in need for positive/negative switching in ESI, it works!!!!! We are using this feature in timed SRM.
It was crucial for choosing this system.

Xcalibur is quite a nice software with a lot of options and possibilities. Also Tracefinder is a nice piece of software but more restrictive to the user. I, personally, prefer Xcalibur. It is also very fast to learn.

BTW. The TSQ Ultra is almost as sensitive as a ABI 4000. Some substances are better on the one TSQ some are better on the ABI. But the positive/negative switching only works well on the TSQ .

Hope my opnion helps a little.

Best regards

Stephan

[hermo71]

Zelda,

I don't know if you have already done your choice, but I would suggest to think about Thermo. Waters TQD is good, but it's really an entry level....also TSQ Quantum Access MAX is Thermo entry level, but it's performance are much better.
Consider the possibility to work in H-SRM, the heated ESI, etc...
I have two TSQ Vantage from Thermo...and on real samples are much better than Waters Xevo.(tested during a demo before buyng).
The UHPLC Accela is very good...I don't know the open Accela AS, but it's a HTC, so it has to work good..)

[zelda855]

Thank you everybody,
I don't have done any choices, I'll do it this week.
I will take informations also about:
-Agilent 1290 + 6420 or 1290+6430 (what do you think?)
-API 3200 or API 4000 (what UHPLC could I use with these MS systems?)
What do you think about Water's intellistart? Is it really good? And what's about quanpedia?
In my opinion Thermo's UHPLC ACCELA is very good (better than aquity and also better than agilent 1290, isn't it?) and it's also a quaternary system (in your opinion isn't it important? 4 isn't better than 2?)
Thanks to all,
Wesley.

[Don_Hilton]

If you have any time this week before you have to make the decision, ask the vendors for local references and then call the references. Ask about the utility of the instruments and about the quality of service. You will also get an idea of how good support is for transferring methods onto the systems, if you need that kind of help.

Even if you do a lot of your own instrument repair, quality of service is important. A badly installed instrument is as useful as a brick with a power cord. And, even if you are an expert in using the instrument you have now, the location of controls to do the job you need to do may not be obvious. Support from the vendor to help you out can make a big difference in getting your methods up and running - for just the issue of finding out how the new vendor does the kinds of things you have known to do for years.

Do not make your decision on what the sales rep says. I've known some great sales reps, who know the instruments well and are quite honest - knowing that this makes for the second and third sale. I've also known some sales reps who will sell you a brick with an electric cord and tell you how it will run your samples and make tost for you in the morning. (In the best case, one might assume these folks are not as familiar with the equipment. In any case, these folks leave it up to service and applications support to make good on the promises - again something you can detect by a discussion of support with other customers.)

[zelda855]

I called their reference and everybody told me that instruments are good, they feel satisfied, instruments are easy to clean, robust, etc...

[hermo71]

Hi Zelda855,

you have to compare 6430 to Quantum Access and TQD. 6410 is slow, not performant, no polarity swiching, etc...
If you read datasheet from Thermo, Waters and Agilent you will see it.
As I told you in the previous post, I have two Thermo LCMSMS systems, and I have no problem at all. The real thing is that Sciex is afraid of Thermo, also because the new acquisition of Dionex, and for this reason is shooting hard against Thermo..)

Quantum Access Max, TQD and 6430 are much better than the old 3200 from Sciex.

Regards

[zelda855]

Thank you.
What do you think about software?
Which one has the best software and libraries?
What do you think about waters' quanpedia? Does it have it an equivalent on thermo, agilent and ap sciex?

[hermo71]

Yes,

the new Thermo software, called TraceFinder, has a built-in SRM library (pesticides, toxins, veterinary drugs, etc..), and with a click you build your method with the SRM transitions you want. Then you have also the Quantum Library, with a lot of compounds acquired in QED-MSMS mode. TraceFinder is very fast and user-friendly.
Sciex has something similar called Cliquid...Agilent I don't know....

[zelda855]

Ok, thanks.

[hermo71]

No,

nobody has a software that automatically make LC method.
TQD and Quantum Access are at a higher level than 6410. Last year I made a demo in order to purchase a new instrument, and 6410 is worse than the other in terms of sensitivity, speed and polarity swithing. Consider that Waters and Thermo make pol switch in about 20 msec...Agilent 6410 in 500 msec...you can't use it!!!! Agilent has a minimum dwell time of 5 msec and an interscan delay of 10 msec...you can't work in UHPLC mode!!!
Believe me, if you like Agilent, go with 6430...the real competitor of TQD and Quantum Access.

Heated source is important for better desolvatation and to enhance sensitivity. TQD and 6410/6430 have not heated ESI, Thermo and Sciex yes. Remember that with Sciex 3200 you have the same problem of 6410: slow pol swithing, slow scan speed, etc..

[zelda855]

Ok thank you so much.
So you tell me that water's software has no competitors, but thermo instrument is better.
So, in your opinion, how much important are better software and more complete libraries than a (little bit) better instrument?
What is your final suggestion?