Empower 2/Waters - Pay twice for one piece of software?

[jeremyatwsu]

We are in a lab that is mainly doing GC, but I run an HPLC from time to time for preparative chromatography.

I came in one day to start up the HPLC, and EMPOWER 2 will not run at all. Long story short, after 4 days on the phone with Waters we determined that the ORACLE database was corrupted, apparently irreparably. The technician was a real nice guy.

I uninstalled Empower2, then reinstalled it. The Empower2 seems capable of running, but it will not because it says we don't have the base package license. I insert the floppy for installation of the license, and the message says that the license is already installed.

Our Waters sales representative tells me that we need to buy a new license to use the software, even though we already own a license. ($4000 to use something we already paid for!) Or we can re-up our support plan for $4600, which happens to include new licenses.

This statement by waters is in contrast to their terms of use agreement (that I still have) that says a license can be used on a second system only if it is first removed from the first system, only one instance may exist at a time. I would happily remove the license if I knew how. I don't want to steal anything, I just want to use what we already paid for. If I want to reinstall any other software I can think of, I don't need to buy another license, I just reinstall it.

The money is not the issue, the issue is trying to make us pay twice for one piece of software.

I may have to think about a trade-in for an Agilent or Shimadzu system, because I am really unhappy about this exploitative behavior.

Any waters representative, can you make this issue go away?

Jeremy

[Hollow]

you should have had copied the lic-key back to the floppy before uninstall the empower! (if it was possible with the corrupt database)

I would contact the technician again and tell him the story, maybe he can organize something, cause he knows the errors there were...

[Csaba]

I have discussed this issue several tims with Waters representatives during 15 years and they just ignore it. Yes, you have to pay again!

[Karen01]

I uninstalled Empower2, then reinstalled it. The Empower2 seems capable of running, but it will not because it says we don't have the base package license. I insert the floppy for installation of the license, and the message says that the license is already installed.

You have to uninstall the the base license using the floppy first. If you did not so that and wiped the hard drive that si what happens

Our Waters sales representative tells me that we need to buy a new license to use the software, even though we already own a license. ($4000 to use something we already paid for!) Or we can re-up our support plan for $4600, which happens to include new licenses.

Did you buy it from Water's or did you get it from a reseller.> If you bought it directly from Waters ask to talk to their manager and make it clear what happened and that you want the license for same version/ service pack you and for and say you will return the current floppy and are willing to pay a small fee for handling. They SHOULD help you.
If not after that, post here and elsewhere about it... That might help!

If you bought it from a reseller you are definitely out of luck as they won't transfer licenses.

I would happily remove the license if I knew how. I don't want to steal anything, I just want to use what we already paid for.

Insert the key disk on the original computer (assuming it has not be wiped) and run the install/uninstall program on it. If the original computer's network name has been changed , change it back to EXACTLY what it was when you were using Empower on it and then run teh program on the floppy.

HTH
- Karen

[jeremyatwsu]

thanks all for your ideas.

The database corruption will not allow the license to be removed.

The senior scientist is pretty ticked off about this issue and seems intent on resolving it with waters.

I will let you know what happens.


Best Wishes,

Jeremy

[benW]

Hi Jeremy,
I posted on your other post... did you have any sort of backup?
Have you resolved this yet?
Cheers,
Ben

[lmh]

Waters should be happy to help you with this, as it's a known problem with their security. If the hard disk of your PC dies, you have no way to uninstall and restore the key-diskette(s).

Incidentally, the key diskettes certainly used to be copy-protected. If you still have a system like this, two bits of advice:
(1) get your IT department to make a ghost copy of the PC as soon as you have a working installation. You can use this to restore the system if anything goes wrong, independently of messing about with key-diskettes.
(2) If you are feeling creative, after carrying out installation, ghost the PC, uninstall using the key-diskettes, and then restore from the ghost copy. This way, your key diskettes will be valid if you ever need to install following a major computer breakdown.

[Klaus I.]

The money is not the issue, the issue is trying to make us pay twice for one piece of software.

I may have to think about a trade-in for an Agilent or Shimadzu system, because I am really unhappy about this exploitative behavior.

This is really strange. You have mentioned a trade-in before, I have noticed recently that Dionex in europe offers actually such trade-in program (I have no relationship to Dionex company or receive any advantages for this).

BTW: Does anybody know the advantages of the expensive Waters BUS/LACE-Board. I was told this is necessary and an Alliance cannot work without the licensed enhancements of the IEEE-standard. Later I was wondering that the Alliance system works perfectly with a common ‘100 EUR’ PCI-Card for the IEEE-Bus if you control the LC with Waters MassLynx.

[Csaba]

BTW: Does anybody know the advantages of the expensive Waters BUS/LACE-Board. I was told this is necessary and an Alliance cannot work without the licensed enhancements of the IEEE-standard. Later I was wondering that the Alliance system works perfectly with a common ‘100 EUR’ PCI-Card for the IEEE-Bus if you control the LC with Waters MassLynx.

Waters determined a design a very long ago when PC's had 80186 and 80286 processors and therefore ended up with the expensive BUS/LACE-Board design which has built in real time processor, clearly seen on the very old ISA versions. (At that time, there were many other expensive control-mesurement cards with such design.) Newer designs uses the processors in the detectors, and the CPU in the PC to keep track of time and to do the work. Masslynx was developed before Waters took over VG/MicroMass and MassLynx was designed in mid 90:ties when Windows NT was new and PC's had at least 80486 processor capacity.

[Klaus I.]

Waters determined a design a very long ago when PC's had 80186 and 80286 processors and therefore ended up with the expensive BUS/LACE-Board design which has built in real time processor, clearly seen on the very old ISA versions. (At that time, there were many other expensive control-mesurement cards with such design.) Newer designs uses the processors in the detectors, and the CPU in the PC to keep track of time and to do the work. Masslynx was developed before Waters took over VG/MicroMass and MassLynx was designed in mid 90:ties when Windows NT was new and PC's had at least 80486 processor capacity.

Thank you very much!

[jeremyatwsu]

Hey all,

Everyone that we talked to at Waters told us repeatedly that there was nothing they could do for us without $$: Pay for a new license or pay for a service contract.

Finally we talked to someone in our department who had organized the original group purchase, which consisted of multiple systems including expensive LC-MS systems. They somehow twisted the arm of the original salesperson, who is now sending out new disks.

After multiple months, Waters is doing what they should have done in the first place.

Thanks for the advice lmh, about 'ghosting the pc'.

Best Wishes to All,
Jeremy