Water's ACQUITY vs ACQUITY H-Class

[Karen01]

Does anyone know what are the the significant differences between Acquity and Acquity H-Class besides the quat pump?

Thanks,
- Karen

[Bull76]

Hi,

The Sample manager is also different. H-Class uses a FTN (flow through needle) Sample manager. Column heater is different also, An active pre heater. Better temp control. Also it's really down to what you need to do.
H-class can be either HPLC or UPLC. Low pressure mixing. Whilst the Acquity is a high pressure mixing system. Is usually just UPLC applications.

Regards,
Bull76.

[rwang]

The dwell volume of Acquity is about half as the one on H-Class so if you want to run ultrafast gradients Acquity is the better choice.

For the sample manager, as Bull76 mentioned, the H-class uses an FTN design which is similar to that of the Alliance 2690/95 system. Also Acquity is compatible with Acquity Sample Organiser which give you a much larger sample capacity. Not sure about the H-Class.

The column oven on the H-class is better in my opinion.

PS:

H-Class is cheaper

[Mattias]

I have not used the H-class, but we have a couple of Acquity in our lab.

As mentioned, the H-class mixes the mobile phases on the low pressure side of the pump. I can imagine that the mixing is much better on the H-class than on the Acquity. We cannot use our systems with TFA or any other organic acid, since the baseline noise is just terrible.

Our Acquitys can only be used with non-UV-absorbing mobile phases, or when coupled to MS.

[Bull76]

Hi,

Also there is a new Sample Organiser for the H-Class, very reliable system. Improvements taken on board from the Standard SO.
Really depends on what you need to do with your system as to what you need to go for. You could if serious request a trial or give your samples to Waters and have them process them and view the results and decide from that.

Regards,
Bull76.

[Karen01]

Thanks for all the replies... I want to do peptide/protein work as well possibly some smaller compounds and what UPLC capability, Eventually the system would likely be hooked up to an MS... but not right away.

What I am considering is one of the Acquity systems or an Agilient 1290.

For using it without MS I like Empower MUCH better than Chemstation (Client-server is not an option here) so I am leaning towards an Acquity... and from the gradient/mixing issues, it sounds like the H-Class would be better, though I don't like the system volume issues and loss of resolution for short runs.

So how does the H-Class (which works for both HPLC and UPLC) stack up against the Agilent 1290? Can both take long HPLC columns if needed? I know the 1290 can go a bit hihker pressure wise (and I think flow rate) but I don't that that is likely to matter.

At my last company I bought an Acquity (not H - they did not exist yet) so I have some experience with that, but I have never seen a 1290.

BTW does buying an Acquity or 1290 lock me into that vendor's MS offerings?

Thanks,
- Karen

[Bull76]

As far as I know. The Acquity would be your better option. Agilent brought out the 1290 to compete with the Acquity but it doesn't match up.
The Acquity or H-Class can come with the extended column heater. So it can take any size column that is on the market. As for connecting it as an Inlet to a MS then the Acquity is the option.
Really you need to talk with the vendors and get some samples ran and have them show you the chromatograms and reports for each. do this for Waters and Agilent that way you have an unbiased approach and go with what you need as opposed to what the vendor pushes on you. Way up all the options, service, spares and of course applications support. It will be your system at the end of the day and you have to live with the choice.

[Karen01]

Really you need to talk with the vendors and get some samples ran and have them show you the chromatograms and reports for each.

At this point the samples don't exist (it's for a new project) and i have to decide quickly and talking to sales people does not give you unbiassed information. I bought an Acquity at my last job about 4 years ago so I am somewhat familiar with it but did not use it much.

While I'm a bit rusty with it, I am very familiar with Empower and comfortable with it (although not version 3) . I have been using ChemStation for the last 5 months and am not crazy about it and prefer Empower, but can live with it.

Unfortunately few people seem to have experience with all 3... If anybody does I would like to hear ASAP as i have to choose soon.

Thanks,
- Karen


- karen

[unmgvar]

Mattias
it is incorrect that you cannot use the UPLC acquity with TFA
you need simply to add a little more mixing power to the system

right now thanks to upchurch or Dionex UHPLC fittings, it should not be a real problem for you to add a 50 or 100ul mixer in between the pump and sampler.

Karen
up to what sizes of molecules do you want to do that project?
peptides might work in a sub 2 column
but the biggest currently availaible pore size for those is 200A from waters
nobody else does above 150A for C-18 and peptide mapping.
maybe at 2.2, 2.5u somebody does 300A?
and for GPC/SEC forget it as well the best columns are at best 3u size with 300A, and those you can use on a standard HPLC these days.
anyway fast peptide mappings are instead of 80-120 min. shorten to 15-25 minutes so you do not need the 1st acquity in my view
to know if the low pressure will not suit your needs you need to know how fast you will actually go
if the pump heads of the H-class are of 80ul then you will not be capable of going under 2 minute run
is that a problem?
anyway the sampler will take between 1-2 minutes to inject each time
remember the 1st acquity sampler is a pulled loop not a in the path needle type.

the question is between the 1290 or the H-class i think.
are you intending to use it also as a "HPLC"?
then you need to check what modifications you need to do like mixer size, loop size for injection
for the H-class you will need to make sure you have the right column oven. the standsard one is too small and do not let them make you think you need to by 2 of them. it is incorrect. you will neve use the small one ever anyway.
also check about the addition of pre-eluent since many times in UHPLC you will go to 40 and above temp.

dwell volumes are something to ask about, but you need to see really the numbers.
UHPLcs can do a lot of good work with 300ul and anyway because of the TFA you will need bigger volumes in all the systems, also the 1290,

I have to admit as well that from collegues the feed back on the 1290 is very positive. not so much for waters.
have you also considered shiamdzu or Dionex? they have also very nice UHPLCs available
and I can only say good things about the Dionex Chromeleon software.
Dionex is right now in cooperation with Bruker for the MS and also thermo, and anyway they have the possibility to connect to applied ABI,
if MS-MS will be in the future you need already to think of that and leave yourself more options.
1290 can be connected to ABI, thermo and bruker as well in the future, not like you think
shimadzu can be connected to ABI as well i know

[Karen01]

up to what sizes of molecules do you want to do that project?

Protiens and protein digests as well as some misc small molecules.

peptides might work in a sub 2 column
but the biggest currently availaible pore size for those is 200A from waters

Actually from their website they have 1.7um 300A C4 and C18 columns. Largest pore size for SEC is 200A IIRC.

to know if the low pressure will not suit your needs you need to know how fast you will actually go
if the pump heads of the H-class are of 80ul then you will not be capable of going under 2 minute run
is that a problem?

Not ideal but likely not a problem.. this is primarily being purchased fro new project so I don't know teh number of samples... When we get down to screening there could be a lot.

anyway the sampler will take between 1-2 minutes to inject each time
remember the 1st acquity sampler is a pulled loop not a in the path needle type.

With the original Acquity you could set the loop to preload so it was never an issue at my last company.

the question is between the 1290 or the H-class i think.

I agree.

are you intending to use it also as a "HPLC"?

Yes.

then you need to check what modifications you need to do like mixer size, loop size for injection
for the H-class you will need to make sure you have the right column oven. the standsard one is too small and do not let them make you think you need to by 2 of them. it is incorrect. you will neve use the small one ever anyway.

I did get it quoted with both. But on the original Acquity I always just used the original column heater for HPLC work with it.

also check about the addition of pre-eluent since many times in UHPLC you will go to 40 and above temp.

You mean eluent pre-heating?

I have to admit as well that from collegues the feed back on the 1290 is very positive. not so much for waters.

What Probelmshave you heard about with the Water's H-Class?

if MS-MS will be in the future you need already to think of that and leave yourself more options.
1290 can be connected to ABI, thermo and bruker as well in the future, not like you think
shimadzu can be connected to ABI as well i know

I think I would only go with Water's or Agilent for the LC. Can the Water's Acquity be used with other Vendors QToF detectors?

Thanks,
- Karen

[Mattias]

Regarding TFA and Acquity> We installed two of the largest mixers in series, but the baseline noise was still terrible using 0.1% TFA and 220 nm. We can see the main peak, but nothing else. Waters has exchanged the detector, but it looks the same.

One more comment: NEVER use partial loop needle overfill injection mode for quantitative analysis (unless you are using internal standard). The injection volume is highly dependant on the viscosity of the sample. The lower viscosity, the higher injection volume.

I use Acquity every day now, and I really like the robustness of the system (never fails) and of course the crazy good separation that is possible to achieve. But there are a couple of limitations.

[Peter Skelton]

I came from using Acquity systems to having a 1290 on a month's trial. In short, I did not recommend the purchase of the 1290, rather than it was better to either get two 1260s for the same price or get an Acquity if UPLC was really needed.

In short -

The entire Agilent modular stack system is not at all ideal for UPLC use. It creates a lot of extra tubing and increases dead volumes far too much unless you're very smart about layout. The guy who installed our demo machine certainly didn't take this into account.

The autosampler is far too small. Whilst it's a lot faster than the Agilent HPLC autosamplers (without using overlap injections on either system) you can only fit a standard tray into it without using a stacker system, which is nowhere near as good a solution as the Acquity Sample Organiser.

Chemstation is nowhere near as good as Empower for the extremely large runs that a UPLC allows you to do. This was an issue because each machine would have been supplied with it's own manufacturer's software.

1290 doesn't have an easily swapped loop like the Acquity does. Whilst the autosampler might be pretty precise, it's nowhere near as precise as an Acquity on full loop injections.

My overall impression on the 1290 is that it was a good step up from the 1200RR systems, but it's still not as good as the Acquity. Whilst the Acquity has its issues, most of them are easily kept at bay with good practice, all of which is detailed very well in the manuals.

If you want a system which will spend most of it's time running HPLC methods and columns but has the capability of running the occassional UPLC method with a UPLC column, then the 1290 is good for that (however I'd still recommend the 1260 on the basis of cost in that situation). If you want something to run UPLC methods and hundreds of samples in a day with minimal effort, then the Acquity wins hands down.

[carls]

The Acquity has several issues including communication and hardware issues. Communication between the UPLC and the MS can be very difficult to establish and maintain. I personally had such problems when using an Acquity with a Micromass QQQ (a Waters company/detector). Perhaps some of these issues have been worked out as this was 2-3 years ago. My UPLC-MSMS system was controlled by Masslynx (Waters' MS software) which has very limited functionality. If you simply want to run many, many samples with the same method this software is OK (not so good for method development). Also, I did NOT have trouble losing communication DURING a run. The communication problems occured when starting the software, rebooting the computer, etc. Empower can control the newer Waters MS detectors (not sure about other vendors detectors) although I believe some of Waters' MS specific software (e.g. proteinlynx) does not work with Empower.

I also had several hardware issues with the Acquity. Both the autosampler and detector had hardware failures requiring them to be sent to Waters for repair.

I have found the 1290 to be very robust (a workhorse similar to the 1100's) although the extra column volume is slightly higher than the Acquity UPLC (not H-class) with the standard single column oven. If you use the column manager in the Acquity then the performance will be greatly reduced and will be well below the 1290 with the built-in 2 column switching valve.

The gradient delay for the 1290 is very low (jetweaver mixer) and 2 different mixing volumes are available on the same mixer.

The 1290 autosampler is fully programmable allowing great flexibilty (i.e. dilution, derivatization, etc.)

Both are good instruments but I feel the 1290 is more robust. As is often the case, the choice (UPLC vs 1290) may be determined by the software (I prefer Chemstation) and the software one uses when running MS detection will be determined by the MS vendor.

We routinely run several 1200/1260 instruments with ABI/Sciex QQQ detectors and they are easily controlled using Sciex's Analyst software (Chemstation does not control the MS or HPLC).