Chromatography Forum

I'm pretty good with software and have been doing or managing chromatography development much of the last 30 years... I am very comfortable with Empower and I'm finding that for me Chemstation is difficult to learn, seems less flexible than Empower, and more primitive in design in some ways. (never mind data files but I have to worry about registers and on-line and off line versions of the app???!!!!!!)

This is not a regulated environment so 21 CFR Part 11 is not needed so that is not a reason to use Empower, but I have gotten permission from my boss to look into using Empower to control all of our chromatography equipment... if the cost is not too much he is willing to consider it. I'm afraid the cost WILL be too much but I'm hoping it won't be...

At my last job I set up Empower to work with HP5890 and Agilent 6890 GCs with FID and ECD detectors and Agilent headspace samplers well as a liquid samplers. We did not control any Agilent HPLCs with Empower there ... While it did not work perfectly it worked well enough that we normally had no problems and everybody in my group only had to know Empower and that made things a lot easier.

But I am worried about how well Empower will work with the Agilent Equipment we have here (we have some older Water's equipment as well) ... Cross-vendor interoperability is never perfect and often not current for the newest instruments and firmware versions... I also know that what salespeople and marketing literature say, and how well things work in practice, are often different.

In my new job we have an Agilent Infinity 1260 HPLC with RID, and a 7820A GC with an MS and FID detectors as well as liquid and headspace samplers...

Can Empower handle all that smoothly?

What about if in the future we decided to added a Mass Spec or a PDA (DAD) to the HPLC? I would appreciate hearing about people's experience with this.

Can it handle a 7820 GC with that setup?

I need this job and don't want to get myself in trouble if we do buy it and have a lot of issues because of it ... but I also know I'll be a LOT more productive with Empower if it works well with these instruments because it is second nature to me.

I woud appreciate if anybody can share their experience with trying to use Empower with that equipment.

Thanks,
- Karen

Dear Karen, although I understand where you are coming from and that you are familiar with Empower, I believe you should give OpenLAB CDS EZChrom Edition a fair chance. As the EZChrom component handles file naming differently through the sequence or single run, your life is easier. When set up, file naming is automatic. Also all runs in a sequence can be stored in a 'sample set' containing all files, methods, report templates etc in a single data container, allowing you to pull out the sample set in 1 go. Even the file naming of the data container can be created automatically. Hence you can work with sequence templates (if required). With the simple and fast sequence generator in OpenLAB CDS EZChrom you can easily make new sequences. Using projects you can store the data sets in their respective structures.
As multi-vendor support is there in the EZChrom it will not only control your Agilent equipment flawlessly but also other vendors. Give your Agilent rep a call.
I am not sure if the newer Agilent equipment is controlled by Empower, we do control the Waters equipment (Alliance/Acquity).

Karen, At my current employer we have Empower controlling a 6890 and soon to be adding a new 7890A GC as well. We are still in the process of setting it up (need the equinox connector) but I should be able to let you know how it worked out in the next week or so. As for headspace, I had no problem with the instrument control module from Waters for a newer headspace from Agilent (G1888?).

As for HPLCs, we currently have 4 Alliances and 2 Hitachi's running off of Empower as well with no problems. I would not think that there would be much of a difference in terms of data communications between an 1100 and a 1260, I have not heard of any issues running a 1100 with Empower so I would not think a 1260 would be a problem.

I really can not comment on EZChrom as I never used it. I consulted for a small start up setting up their analytical lab. We got quotes for EZChrom, ChemStation and Empower and ultimately decided on Empower as it made more sense with the equipment they had.

BTW; based on what you described about your previous experience in some of your posts, I think I am a former collegue of yours from a company in Watertown MA, I worked in the QC lab there. It is good to see you landed on your feet.

Karen, At my current employer we have Empower controlling a 6890 and soon to be adding a new 7890A GC as well. We are still in the process of setting it up (need the equinox connector) but I should be able to let you know how it worked out in the next week or so. As for headspace, I had no problem with the instrument control module from Waters for a newer headspace from Agilent (G1888?).

Hi,

Thanks for the info. Yes I know who you are (and Sphereman made me wonder right off the bat!!!) and as you are not using your first name I won't. I know you know ChemStation well as QC at our last employer used it, and i guess you know Empower well now too!

We have a 7820 not 7890 which is a newer (and cheaper) model than the 7890 so I'm not sure about that.

As for HPLCs, we currently have 4 Alliances and 2 Hitachi's running off of Empower as well with no problems. I would not think that there would be much of a difference in terms of data communications between an 1100 and a 1260, I have not heard of any issues running a 1100 with Empower so I would not think a 1260 would be a problem.

I Just spoke with Water's sales rep today (same one we had at the last place we worked). She said the Empower does not yet support the 1260... but strangely Agilent says it does!

I really can not comment on EZChrom as I never used it. I consulted for a small start up setting up their analytical lab. We got quotes for EZChrom, ChemStation and Empower and ultimately decided on Empower as it made more sense with the equipment they had.

I think I know the company you mean... I was surprised Howard did not have me do some of that since they bought my old Alliances... Oh well.

BTW; based on what you described about your previous experience in some of your posts, I think I am a former collegue of yours from a company in Watertown MA, I worked in the QC lab there. It is good to see you landed on your feet.

Thanks... After being out of work for a year and half I though my career might have been over given my age and was very worried. Career level wise, I'm back to where i was 15 years ago when our last company was just starting up , but I'm grateful to have a job, and one that is close to home.

Todd Is working in Bedford now and Julie is a consultant. I'm meeting Julie and Rajeev for lunch in early january. I really wish our old employer had made it... I was there almost from the beginning, and after working there almost 14 years, it still seems strange not be there.

Where I am is another startup, but nothing like the last one was.

It is a bit of a challenge getting used to doing so much hands on after being an R&D manager for over a decade, but it's all coming back.

Thanks and take care.

- Karen

Hi,

As far as I know, there is no other option for Agilent GC/MS instrument than original Agilent software to control the instrument. Probably You can use some other software to handle the measured data, but startup/shutdown of instrument and measurement has to be run under Chemstation.

Routine measurement generaly can be run under Empower using Agilent HPLC (provided Empower version and Agilent HPLC model are compatible - I'm not expert here), BUT you completely loose all test/service functions unless You work under Chemstation. No way to check how many hours your UV lamp has run, no way to run lamp test, pump pressure test, change autosampler needle etc. Equipment/software producers had promised to solve these issues for a while, but I did not hear any good news till now.

If you have the manual control module with Agilent HPLC this problem can be managed, but firmware update in the HPLC instrumnt, required for Empower compatibility, might make older models of control modules unusable - You have to check that (and possibly invest money in a new latest control module).

I was wondering if the newly introduced Empower 3 could help. It boasts support for a wider range of instruments (incl mass specs) and it does support Agilent 1200 LC and 7890 GC, however for your exact model I am not too sure.

Please be aware that Empower 3 has different system hardware requirements (compared with Empower 2) for Workstation/Client/Server, and operates mostly on 64 bit operating systems (windows 7 or windows server 2008 64-bit).

I haven't got hands-on experience with Empower 3 but based on what I have read it could be very similar, if not the same, as Empower 2 in terms of user operations.

Talk to your local Waters rep and see if they could provide a solution for you. Hope this helps.

Rang

Disclaimer: I don't work for Waters, and don't work in sales.

Thanks Rwang,

I emailed my Waters rep today with the models of all the equipment we have. Some of the Water's equipment may be too old for Empower 3.

Anyway I'll see what they say.. and what the price is, and if my current employer will go for it.

Maybe I can live with ChemStation... Going from Empower to ChemStation has been quite the culture shock! The organization and design philosophies are so different between the two.

I suspect someone who had used only used ChemStation for about 20 years (I used Empower and it predecessors about that long I think) would find Empower very confusing!