Chromatography Forum

Dear all,

I have a problem with my Saturn 2000. It won`t start if I press start on the GC 3800.

Situation is as follows:

- GC 3800 with Saturn 2000 and MSWS 6.4x
- GC and MS are communicating with MSWS
- MS tunes and responds properly from the 2000.40 window
- Start on GC starts the 3800.44 and vice versa
- 2000.40 starts the MS aquisition

But when I start the GC run the MS doesn`t start. There is no autosampler present at the moment. I tried with the GC in the autostart box and not in it. Same behavior. Some weird synchronization problems.

Both modules are in the ready state.

I tried also with static IP adress and with IP assigned via bootp. No difference.

Perhaps I have missed something in the method, but it seems ok for me. I also re-installed the software without luck.

Another way to solve the start problems may be the connector J43 on the back of the MS. But I don`t have the pin assignement. If anybody knows them.....

By the way I am also in need for the connector pin assignement of the Analog Output (J6). I need the GC Ready/Idle signal for interfacing a CTC A200S and/or HS-500. Unfortunately no pin assignements are in the Varian manuals.

It would be nice if anybody knows a (partial) solution for my problems.

Best regards

Stephan

I recall that the full system start (gc and ms) is usually achieved with manual injection only when the injection port rocker switch is closed by pressing it all the way down by the syringe or manually. Pressing the 3800 start switch, as you know now, only starts the gc and not the ms.

I will try to check this out again and let you know.

I recall that the full system start (gc and ms) is usually achieved with manual injection only when the injection port rocker switch is closed by pressing it all the way down by the syringe or manually. Pressing the 3800 start switch, as you know now, only starts the gc and not the ms.

I will try to check this out again and let you know.

Thank you for the information, but I also tried this. Same behavior as the Start button at the GC. But if you have the possibility to look where the injection port rocker switch is attached at your machine.
At my system the cable is connected at the plug where the temperature probes are connected also. There is a port labeled start. I think it should be right.
I build the mas from two units. Perhaps there is another problem. But everything seems to work. Tuning, chromatography... the mass spectra looks also well.

Best regards

Here is the procedure I use for manual injection with the Saturn system to start both the gc and the mass spec.

-In system control window menu bar, toggle the Single Sample Injection button

-Fill in sample id and under inj type choose manual( I am not sure if this is available in version 6.4 but is in 6.8)

-select method and file save location

-toggle the inject button

-instrument should go into method download for both gc and ms; I believe the system control window should show "WAITING" when everything is ready

-when ready light on gc turns on, press the green gc start button

- now on the gc display window press the START METHOD button ( mostly this step applies when you are making manual injections with an autosampler installed)

- press the start button again and inject the sample or inject the sample to toggle the start switch

-check that gc is running and that the ms is acquiring

-check in gc window that gc is started and switch to ms window to see if ms has started acquiring as well

Basically, I think the start command must initiate from the data system software in order to sync the gc and ms to start together whether you are doing manual injections. This requires of course that the method selected in the first step has both the gc and the ms sections built.

This may be confusing since I am doing it from notes. I was unable to check the procedure again as the instrument was in use.

Here is the procedure I use for manual injection with the Saturn system to start both the gc and the mass spec.

-In system control window menu bar, toggle the Single Sample Injection button

-Fill in sample id and under inj type choose manual( I am not sure if this is available in version 6.4 but is in 6.

-select method and file save location

-toggle the inject button

-instrument should go into method download for both gc and ms; I believe the system control window should show "WAITING" when everything is ready

-when ready light on gc turns on, press the green gc start button

- now on the gc display window press the START METHOD button ( mostly this step applies when you are making manual injections with an autosampler installed)

- press the start button again and inject the sample or inject the sample to toggle the start switch

-check that gc is running and that the ms is acquiring

-check in gc window that gc is started and switch to ms window to see if ms has started acquiring as well

Basically, I think the start command must initiate from the data system software in order to sync the gc and ms to start together whether you are doing manual injections. This requires of course that the method selected in the first step has both the gc and the ms sections built.

This may be confusing since I am doing it from notes. I was unable to check the procedure again as the instrument was in use.

Thank you very much for your detailed explanations. This is the procedure is allready tried.

Some differences are existing. In my MSWS version is no injection type selection possible. With this procedure only the GC starts.

Today I tried another variation. I loaded the method, toggled the single sample injection button, filled in the informations and toggled the inject button.

This time I toggled the start acquisition button at the Saturn.40 window and the whole system started. This was nice but not really what I want.
From this behavior of the system I assume that it is working as it should, in principle. There must be a something I oversee in the method or some settings in the GC .
It seems as the software doesn`t pass-through the start signal from the GC. A sync problem.

Any idea where to look? Perhaps this is a problem of my GC config. I have two EFC`s and two Injectors. I only use the middle one. Maybe the MS waits for a start signal at the wrong "port"?

Thank you in advance

Stephan

Labstephan,
I have had intermittent problems with acquisition starting with the Saturn 2000 - although not sounding exactly like your problem. The SAP/WAV (?) board needed replacing. Have you ever had to have that replaced?
WK

Labstephan,
I have had intermittent problems with acquisition starting with the Saturn 2000 - although not sounding exactly like your problem. The SAP/WAV (?) board needed replacing. Have you ever had to have that replaced?
WK

Hello WK,

the SAP board has not been replaced. As far as I know. In diagnostics every test routine is ok.
I had the idea to use the J43 connector at the back of the saturn for start-in. But it seems to be impossible to get information about the pin allignement of the connectors. I also searched for the output of the GC ready signal from the 3800. Same results.
The Varian manuals didn`t give much advise.

Best regards

Stephan

Dear all,

after some reading of the (not very good ) documentation I am sure I need a sync cable from the Saturn 2000 (connector J43) to the 3800 GC. There must be some kind of syncronization via a cable. Thats what mentioned in the software revision document from MSWS Version 5.xx.

It would be nice if anybody has the opportunity to look at his/her machine if there is such a connection. And if possible to measure wich pins are connected on each connector.

It seems to be impossible to get these information from Varian / Agilent / Bruker.

Thank you very much in advance.

Stephan

Labstephan,
I have had intermittent problems with acquisition starting with the Saturn 2000 - although not sounding exactly like your problem. The SAP/WAV (?) board needed replacing. Have you ever had to have that replaced?
WK

Hello WK,

the SAP board has not been replaced. As far as I know. In diagnostics every test routine is ok.
I had the idea to use the J43 connector at the back of the saturn for start-in. But it seems to be impossible to get information about the pin allignement of the connectors. I also searched for the output of the GC ready signal from the 3800. Same results.
The Varian manuals didn`t give much advise.

Best regards

Stephan

Stephan --

You will need the synchronization cable to send the remote start signal from the 3800 GC to the Saturn MS. Surely you can order this from Agilent. If not, Bruker may have one available since the GC product line from Varian was divested to them.

Good luck,

My instrument is running right now so I can't look at the pins. I will be happy to check it out in a few hours. In the meantime, my cable still has the old Varian part number on it, and maybe you can use this to help you track down the right cable. Varian part no. 03-930340-01

Hello Idla,

it would be great if you have the possibility to check the pins. I prefer to tailor my own cable. Connectors are allready on my desk.
Perhaps you can use a continuity checker or disassemble the connectors for a quick look.

Thank you very much for your help

Best regards
Stephan

My instrument is running right now so I can't look at the pins. I will be happy to check it out in a few hours. In the meantime, my cable still has the old Varian part number on it, and maybe you can use this to help you track down the right cable. Varian part no. 03-930340-01

Stephan,

Assuming you numbered the pins as below, and were looking at the pin side

1___2___3___4___5___6___7___8
__9__10__11__12__13__14__15

Male (GC) to Female (MS):
3 to 6
9 to 1
and on the male end, 1 is looped back to 2

I actually have a 3900 GC instead of a 3800 GC.

Thank you very much for the information. I`ll prepare a sync cable tomorrow (it`s a little late tonight) and let you know if it is working.

Stephan

Stephan,

Assuming you numbered the pins as below, and were looking at the pin side

1___2___3___4___5___6___7___8
__9__10__11__12__13__14__15

Male (GC) to Female (MS):
3 to 6
9 to 1
and on the male end, 1 is looped back to 2

I actually have a 3900 GC instead of a 3800 GC.

Problem solved!!!!!!!

Idla, thank you very much for your effort to check your cable. The pin assignement also works for my CP-3800 and Saturn 2000 system. I owe you a beer

Also grattitudes to everybody who was sharing his/her intentions to me.

Best regards

Stephan

Eastern Florida State College in Melbourne, Fl has just acquired a 30 (or more) year old HP 3400 GC and Finnigan ITS 40 MS. The Varian Software that was supplied was loaded onto a Pentium based PC, with an IEE 488 bus card. The software goes to an unreadable red screen. Any chance you may have some correct software or suggestions on helping us get this equipment operational so we can teach our organic chemistry students GC/MS?

We also have an HP 5890 GC and a 5972 Mass Selective Detector.
Can these be connected for a GC/MS and if so, where do we get the S/W to run it?

George Kenney Kenneyg@EasternFlorida.edu 321-543-6180