Chromatography Forum

My research group needs to buy a HPLC. Another lab of my institute (from Argentina) recently adquired a Shimadzu but nobody used it yet, so the performance of the equipment and the software
(LCsolution Ver Single 1.24) remains unknown to us. Nevertheless, Shimadzu is instaled in Argentina
for many years and I have found quite good
references about it and their HPLCs.
On the other hand, the firm Bioesanco represents Dionex since July in Argentina; so
the price of the HPLC (ultimate 3000 model, software chromeleon 6.8 CHM-1) is very convenient
(cheaper than Shimadzu) but no reference is available yet concerning the technical support by Bioesanco in Dionex HPLC equipment.

I would like to recieve some advise on this subject. If anybody has experience
with these HPLCs, can suggest me the correct decision?


thanks

IF i have to go for a HPLC I will go for WATERS ALLIANCE

Hi Mer,

I have an idea for you: Whilst considering different options, you or your HPLC expert/s could go to the other lab (the one that has an idle Shimadsu) and try that system out. Here is what you get:

1. You’ll get first hand experience with that particular brand.

2. You’ll help your friends/colleagues, who might not have had the time to set the system up.

3. You’ll define concrete questions that might be critical to the potential procurement.

Best Regards

On the other hand, the firm Bioesanco represents Dionex since July in Argentina; so
the price of the HPLC (ultimate 3000 model, software chromeleon 6.8 CHM-1) is very convenient
(cheaper than Shimadzu) but no reference is available yet concerning the technical support by Bioesanco in Dionex HPLC equipment.

My experience is, that Dionex offers a good and competent technical support, as most of the HPLC suppliers do. But honestly, I don't think that you'll need much technical support as the Dionex HPLC is German engineering and manufacturing, which says all about their quality. So, I wouldn't consider this point in your decision.

@Fiz:
of course this is a point to think about! every system is capable of having malfunctions. Some doubts may arise if someone guarantees a maintenance free system...
so what if there's a pump problem and no alternate device is available?

We have Waters Alliance (11) and Acquity (3) and Agilent 1100 (5) and Dionex Summit instruments (3).

Looking at the downtime, cost of repair and the amount of time you need to spend on air in the syringe and faulty check valves - the Dionex systems are by far the worst, even though they are the newest. Dionex new 3000 system is probably better (hopefully). The Dionex service is quick, professional and friendly.

Agilent and Waters Alliance may cost more, but there is a clear step up in quality.

@Fiz:
of course this is a point to think about! every system is capable of having malfunctions. Some doubts may arise if someone guarantees a maintenance free system...
so what if there's a pump problem and no alternate device is available?

I disagree. Because I don't think that technical support forgo Argentina, no matter which of the key supplier you consider. I just would have some doubts in case of smaller supplier. But they're not topic of this thread.

Fiz, it is nice that you support the company that pays your salary, but you also should state who you represent.

We have a number of Shimadzu HPLC systems and have been very happy with them. They are workhorse instruments that have lasted for a long time. Their service and tech support has been excellent. I don't have any recent experience with Waters or Agilent, I have used Dionex ICs and they are good. I don't like the Chromeleon software though. Tech support is decent.

You should talk to other labs in your area that have similar systems and ask if they are satisfied with the instrument and support. Try to see which software you like best and maybe get some test samples run.

Mer,

we have experience with both types of instruments.
Ultimate 3000 are very robust HPLCs.
like any other instrument you need to know their specific details of maintenance and you are pretty much trouble free. we like them very much because they are fast to set up and their autosampler has a very good wash procedure for some of our "ugly" applications that in other instruments give too much carry over.

a few things that you should take into consideration:
1. CM 6.8 CHM-1 is the older software version without GLP. there is CM 7 now.
2. Dionex has the possibility to provide for a "low tech" cheaper HPLC. it all resolves around the autosampler type. WPS is the more expensive Split loop design with better performance and no sample waste. the ACC is a pulled loop with small decent oven built in, cheaper possibility. the draw back is that the design wastes a lot of sample per injection and the oven is basic only.

As for the software, Chromeleon is one of the best out there, maybe even the best depending on who you ask. if you are looking for simple of use yet with a broad range of capacities, especially in reporting and automated complex calculations then no other comes close to it.

As the sales representatives for references (people in labs near by who are actively using their equipment). Talk to these folks. You will learn about the quality of instrumentation and support avaialble in your area. Also, I would suggest visiting the labs and see what kind of operation they have. This will help you understand the experience level of the people giving reccomendations. And if there are no near by references -- you know that local support is likely to be weak. (No instrument - no need for a company to fund local support.)

We just ordered a new Waers Alliance system. I have been a Waters user for many years, and my experience is very positive. They support their instruments for many years, the apparatus runs without having major problems, small routine maintence is easy to do (seals, checkvalve replacement. Of course one should also look at the quality of the technical service, which by the way, is excellent in Belgium.

WATERS ALLIANCE is an obsolete model with large dead volume.

I have not used Shimadzu equimpment the las t yuears but they used to be good. Actually I think the hardware from Agilent, Dionex, Shimadzu and Waters are all good. The best is to find out how good the local support is!

I question the Agilent and Waters support. You will have to do an expenive upgrade of old Alliance to to make them compatible with new Empower version. Agilent drops support after 10 years. So Chromeon runs better on old Waters and Agilent equipment than the vendors own software.

It comes to software. I find Chromeleon superior to Chemstation, Empower and LCsolution. Chromeleon can also control Shimadzu equipment.

No question about it, Dionex U3000 would be the one i would choose.
Very reliable, well priced, superb software and versatile.

My first choice is always Agilent. I spent 11 years at Phizer and 95% machines in our facility were Agilent. Right now we have 7 Agilent 1100 machines and they work like a clock...Swiss clock. All units are atleast 14 years old, we just change seals, lamps and filters.