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retention prediction for peptide HILIC

Discussions about HPLC, CE, TLC, SFC, and other "liquid phase" separation techniques.

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I am wondering if anybody can give me advice on:
1) If there are any DETAILED scientific publication on peptide retention prediction in HILIC;
2) Is there the most popular HILIC separation mode for peptides in proteomics: sorbent and eluent composition - just in case if one want to develop such algorithm.
thanks
O.K.

Such a thing would have been done by Mant and Hodges and coworkers, but you would probably know that.

Martin Gilar has demonstrated HILIC peptide separations. Contact him to see if he has some more homework (I doubt).

You can use a silica column (Atlantis HILIC silica) or an underivatized hybrid (XBridge HILIC) for such applications. Another application world are the neutral packings by Andy Alpert (Polyhydroxyaspartamide). Actually, there could be reasonable retention data base for this packing. Similar to the latter is the new hybrid XBridge Amide packing from Waters, but you can use this packing not only under acidic, but also under alkaline conditions. No data base for peptides yet, as far as I know...

Thanks Uwe.
Saying DETAILED I thought of proteomics data with diverse set of peptides.
As for sorbents - definitely Waters has columns for everything :-)
but maybe there is some "consensus" good HILIC media?
Anyone???
O.K.

Andy Alpert is the HILIC pioneer. You might look him up for specific questions regarding column type. I use Polyhydroxyethyl-A columns with good results. There are several other options for column. However, in passing, Snyder mentioned no real great differences between HILIC columns. (I imagine this to mean 'compared to the differences in selectivity between, for instance, PLRS and C18 columns in RP")


As far as predicting peptide retention times, see:

Journal of Chromatography A, 808 (1998) 105–112


Yoshida has published quite a bit on the subject. In one paper, he determines retention coefficients of AAs for three different columns. Unfortunately, because HILIC isn't nearly as celebrated as RP, you probably won't find a calculator online to do it for you, which means using Excel (like I have done).

On "no real great differences between HILIC columns" see Tom in the other current chain on HILIC:
"Selectivity will differ considerably among the different stationary phases, and I don't think that any one can be "best" for all samples."

In my experience with the Waters Atlantis Silica and the SeQuant (now Merck) ZIC-HILIC, which is a zwitter ionic phase, I found many similarities, but also some considerable differences. For instance, the chloride ion could easily be retained on the ZIC, whereas I did not find conditions were the Atlantis did this. Since there can be considerable differences it appears that Tom´s statement is the one to trust more.
I have the feeling that statements to the contrary have a theoretical background, namely the proposed mechanism of HILIC: the partition into "stationary" water layers. If this is mechanism is correct it should be clear to anybody by now that the characteristics of such a stationary water layer are dependent on the supporting phase.

Thanks everybody for suggestions.
I made one general conclusion: there is no "consensus good" column for peptide HILIC. Maybe because the method is not as popular as RP, where you can say easily that 100A C18 is the optimal choice.
Another question I have regarding "pipettemonkey" comment: why predictive algorithm was mentioned in connection with Excel? I do not see any connection here.
O.K.

Thanks everybody for suggestions.
I made one general conclusion: there is no "consensus good" column for peptide HILIC. Maybe because the method is not as popular as RP, where you can say easily that 100A C18 is the optimal choice.
Another question I have regarding "pipettemonkey" comment: why predictive algorithm was mentioned in connection with Excel? I do not see any connection here.
I'm not sure you can ever say such and such column (even a 100A C18) is "the best," period :D . Depends on the application. Analyte size, hydrophobicity, etc will dictate optimal RP column.

Retention, recovery, and selectivity are some reasons for choosing one RP column over another. For instance, C18 might be the most popular, but recovery is usually better with a C4. On the other hand, a C18 might be a better option if the analyte is poorly retained on a C4.

You are correct- There have been considerably fewer studies done on HILIC compared to a more celebrated mode, such as RP.

As far as predicting retention in chromatography-
The most simple retention calculators are based on amino acid composition. There are numerous programs on the web to calculate retention in RP, however, none that I know of for HILIC. This means you would have to look up retention coefficients for amino acids in HILIC, and add them up manually.

well... this true that there is nothing absolute in this world. although for peptides in general (speaking of proteomics typical applications) 100A C18 the optimal choice in 90% of cases. But there is always some exceptions.

my interest in HILIC peptide models caused by intention to develop general use HILIC model for peptides. I believe it should be a bit more complicated than Excel sheet :-) and correct choice of column/conditions is critical here.
O.K.

my interest in HILIC peptide models caused by intention to develop general use HILIC model for peptides. I believe it should be a bit more complicated than Excel sheet :-) and correct choice of column/conditions is critical here.
Modeling HILIC is most definitely more complicated than adding up retention coefficients. As with any model where (only) amino acid composition is considered, structural features dictated by sequence affect retention. This is especially true for larger peptides.

Adding up the retention coefficients gives gives you more of a ballpark estimate than a Soothsayer-esque prediction accurate to the 0.1 sec.

yes, everything what you are saying about complexity of these things agrees with what I learned about peptide retention prediction in the past.
O.K.

Well, the most established column for HILIC applications of peptides is Andy Alpert's polyhydroxyaspartamide. The simplest column would be a silica HILIC column. In both cases you may not find sufficient data for retention modeling, and you may need to generate the data yourself. If you want to do that, I recommend to start with a HILIC silica column. Simple and reproducible and does not bleed (I assume that you want to make such prediction software useful for MS applications, and maybe make your life easy in the data generation).

Overall, HILIC could be simpler than RP. I would assume that there is less of a chance for folding complications...

Actually there are papers published on peptide retention time prediction in HILIC... they are not easy to be found as they were published before HILIC was coined in 1990 so they are described as normal phase chromatography... but if you look at the mobile phase is all water-acetonitrile TFA combination high organic to low organic, exactly what we call nowadays HILIC.

T. Yoshida has published a lot on the subject, an example is below:

Title: Calculation of peptide retention coefficients in normal-phase liquid chromatography
Author(s): Yoshida T
Source: JOURNAL OF CHROMATOGRAPHY A Volume: 808 Issue: 1-2 Pages: 105-112 Published: MAY 29 1998

You would think that HILIC would be simpler than RP for predicting those, but I would expect to have it's own challenges.

Below are angiotensin separations using reversed phase & normal phase:
http://www.imtaktusa.com/site_media/fil ... TI374E.pdf

Unison UK-Amino could work for this application.

We have recently launched a subpage dealing with peptide separation;

www.sequant.com/peptides

The potential of using HILIC for peptide mapping is illustrated with three trypsin digested proteins, BSA, Cytochrome C, and Ovalbumin, along with identified sequences and experimental conditions. There are also 20+ references to peer reviewed papers with useful information.

Our experience indicates that one can expect a higher sequence coverage when combining HILIC with classical approaches, like reversed phase.

An additional feature when switching to HILIC, or combining it with a reversed phase strategy, is that hydrophobic peptides not detected with a RP column can be identified. HILIC eluents typically contain a high percentage of organic solvent hydrophobic peptides are potentially less prone to precipitation during sample handling on the column than in RP chromatography.

Another feature using HILIC is that higher sensitivity can be expected for many peptide sequences, due to the high percentage organic content in the mobile phase which enhances volatilisation in the detector.


In terms of finding information about retention prediction in HILIC, I can only relate to our phases, and they are predictable.

We have a free on-line retention prediction tool for HILIC separation.
www.sequant.com/prediction.

This tool was developed for small molecules, and we have not yet adapted it for peptides...but in the reference list you will find review papers worth reading and two studies which could give you some input on how to predict retention for peptides in HILIC mode.
Merck SeQuant AB
www.sequant.com

Thanks Uwe, Kostas, Patrik, Bryan,
I am getting overall picture slowly :-)
TFA based acetonitrile-water eluents seem very attractive - we don't need to change anything in our standard system. speaking of columns - we'll see what will be easier to get.
As for T. Yoshida's paper (pipettemonkey suggested it before)- standard additive approach, but will be a good starting point and it uses TFA as well.
O.K.
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