Chromatography Forum

I have an old Shimadzu series 10 HPLC. HPLC is working fine except the autosampler which is giving out a loud screetch when the needle moves... autosampler is still functional, and RSD for multiple injections are well within control.

The noise seems to be coming from the Z-axis motor cause I get that noise every time needle takes the sample and injects it.

The noise feels like two gears not rotating freely...

The best thing to do would be to call the serive engineer from shimadzu, but for some ridiculous reasons I can not do that for the time being.

Does any one have any detailed manuals for the maintenance of SIL-10ADVP? Or some instructions which would describe the equipment beyond the plumbing?

Or any clue how I should get around this problem?

Please any kind of help is welcome.

Mukul

It sounds like your needle is set too low or your Z-axis set point is a bit off.

If you're lucky, ask one to talk you through resetting the Z-axis height adjustment. It will require a standard sized business card (this is the proper height) and the code to get into the SIL's service mode (holding the shift key down while powering up the controller or something like that).

I don't remember the rest, but it is not very difficult.

If you are located in the US, call the Shimadzu toll free number and open a technical support call. There is no charge for this service, and they can help you diagnose the problem.

This could be caused by a guide rod that is dirty or needs lubrication. You could try wiping off the guide rods with a Kimwipe moistened with methanol. This may solve the problem if there is a buildup of dust or residue preventing the carriage from moving smoothly.

DR and RON

Thanks a lot for your replies.

It could be a result of wrongly set Z-axis cause I remember a technician working on it and he did change the z-axis height settings. may be he messed up!

The guiding rod actually looks pretty clean however there is some grease on the ball screw which moves the needle on the Z-axis. But I figure it should be there... Unfortunately my HPLC is set up such that I can hardly get any visual access to observe what is actually going wrong.

If setting Z-axis doesnt work I will call Shimadzu first thing tomorrow!

Thanks guys

Mukul

hey guys

i know it's a lot of time since the last comment to this topic, but i am actually experiencing the exact same problem with my SIL10ADvp autoinjector.
So i thought I might try if someone still has a highlight on this thread.
If so: does anyone know what to do in this case? I tried to clean the guiding rod (what also the shimadzu technician told me to do) but this does not seem to fix the problem.
I also noticed that if I use vials without a septum the problem does not occur. It occurs with the exact same septa as before when the problem did not occur (even the same plastic bag they were from) so I don't think its an issue of the manufacturer of the septa chaning something at the septa themselves.

If anyone has an idea I would appreciate some advice.


Best regards
Steff

I think it is adjustment problem...
Turn on power with F1 held down, menu, 5 (to display AUTO INJECTOR), fank (to display TEACH i), F4 (to display TEACHING OK), YES.
So you enter TEACHING MODE for needle X/Y position.
Press CE to lower needle. Shift + CE lowering largely. INS moves needle to upper limit position.
Arrow keys moves needle in any side.

thanks for the reply.

the teaching you just was also recommended by the shimadzu technician whom i called.
unfortunately the teaching did not solve the problem. the needle now perfectly hits the middle of the septum but still the needle seems to stall, when touching the septum.
I am still waiting for the technicians answer so I thought to ask here if maybe some has an idea.

regards
steff

It is veryy strange. If it tries hit septum but can't you can use only pre-slit septum... such requirements on HTA autosamplers, for example.
I can send you service manual for SIL-10A autosampler, let me know your email.

The step motor or the driver electronics of motor seems faulty.

...or a couple of teeth have been stripped from the belt that is driven by the stepper motor. Time to get "more" into it.

I had a similar problem several years back with a Shimadzu 10 series autosampler. We resolved the problem by using vials with thinner septa and sharpening the point of the needle with a file.

thanks again for your replies!

@elsico: is the SIL-10ADvp included in the manual you have? because i have also some manuals (at least parts of it) from the 10A series, which unfortunately do not include the SIL-10ADvp.
the needle pierces the septum, as i can see a hole in a new septum from both sides. but it obviously stalls at the septum because i cannot see the needle inside the vial during the aspiration process. so it seems that the needle firstly is stalled, but as the motor moves further it finally pierces the septum but far from deep enough

@uzman: i think its not the electronics, because everything works perfectly if i use lids without a septum. so it seems to be a mechanical problem

@DR: i am a little bit afraid of taking the autosampler apart as i am not used to such things is there any possibility to reach the belt without taking the autosampler apart?

@dhobbs: that may work, but unfortunately will not solve the cause of the problem, i think. it just treats "symptoms"

regards
stefan

Hello Steff88,

I think the step motor does not have enough force to pierce the septum , so it may work without a septum.
Either the current passing through the windings of the motor is weak , or the motor itself has a problem , such as faulty ball bearings , a broken winding etc.
Step motors have several windings inside , and if one of them broken , they may still work but with reduced power.

Hi there,

I have experienced such a problem in SIL20 series. It turned out that while writting the method for injections I had put the wrong value at NEEDLE STROKE settings. Instead of 52mm depth I had put 41mm. Therefore, the needle didn't go deep enough to reach my sample and aspirate. Check your programme and settings as it could well be something similar and stupid enough not to think of it.

Emma

Does anyone still have the SIL-10ADVP Service Manual they would be willing to share?