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GC 5890 FID/Purge and Trap Baseline Drift Problem

Discussions about GC and other "gas phase" separation techniques.

47 posts Page 3 of 4
I am using a capillary column dimensions 30m x 0.53mm x 1um. My column head pressure is set to 18 psi. My P&t has its own pressure control and its set to 6.5 psi. I have a column flow of 7 ml/min. My carrrier gas/AUX gas flow is 29.1 ml/min (that's with the column flow subtracted) My air is set to 260 ml/min and my Hydrogen is set to 38 ml/min. Those are fairly close to where they were when I was hired but I am completely open to changing them to have a more optimal run. I just have no idea what the flows should be for the best results on my instrument.

I believe both the P&T is supplying Carrier gas as well the GC has a line going to it from the tank. They have (I believe) independent controllers. The GC has a Column Head Pressure Controller and the P&T has a Trap Pressure Controller.
There is clearly something here that is very odd - for a sample from the P&T to reach the column the gas has to flow from the P&T to the GC inlet, and then to the column. But the pressure in the inlet (the column head pressure) is 18 psi and in the P&T 6.5 psi, which will make the gas flow from the inlet to the P&T. Also, if you have a packed column inlet with no split and no septum purge then all the gas that goes into the inlet should flow down the column. Yet you have carrier gas flow into the inlet which is 29.1 ml minute more than your column flow. Does this "AUX" flow go to the P&T ? - all GCs have a control for the carrier gas that goes to the inlet and in addition some of them have an AUXillary control that supplies gas to external hardware such as P&T samplers. Are you controlling the carrier gas using the AUX control ? via the P&T ?. Is the GC's own carrier gas supply capped off before it reaches the inlet so that the "column head pressure" reading that you see is actually not the inlet pressure ?

I begin to suspect that one of your predecessors has modified the plumbing - in a perfect world this would have been documented, see what you can find.

If you connect an ordinary pressure gauge to a syringe needle and push the needle through the inlet septum, what is the pressure reading ?

Peter
Peter Apps
It seems that you should seriously consider making a direct connection from the P&T to the gc column and bypass the inlet completely (except to warm it to eliminate a cold spot). I suspect that the flow problems you currently have in your inlet are the root of what's going on here.

It's good that you're using a 0.53 mm id column. They can handle higher flows better. A 6.5 psig head pressure is still pretty fast but you have to get your analytes out of the trap quickly and onto the column without too much band broadening.

Back in the day, you needed the liquid N2 trap to get tight bands on the column with smaller columns (0.32 and 0.25 mm id) because the flow was too slow to rapidly sweep the analytes from the trap to the head of the column.
I am using a capillary column dimensions 30m x 0.53mm x 1um. My column head pressure is set to 18 psi. My P&t has its own pressure control and its set to 6.5 psi. I have a column flow of 7 ml/min. My carrrier gas/AUX gas flow is 29.1 ml/min (that's with the column flow subtracted) My air is set to 260 ml/min and my Hydrogen is set to 38 ml/min. Those are fairly close to where they were when I was hired but I am completely open to changing them to have a more optimal run. I just have no idea what the flows should be for the best results on my instrument.

I believe both the P&T is supplying Carrier gas as well the GC has a line going to it from the tank. They have (I believe) independent controllers. The GC has a Column Head Pressure Controller and the P&T has a Trap Pressure Controller.
I have run a similar setup as you describe. What you have is the older non purged packed/direct inject inlet in a 5890. There should be only one knob on the front of the GC with a pressure gauge which reads head pressure. The carrier line is probably spliced on the left side of the GC so that it goes from the flow controller in the GC to the back of the Tekmar 3000 to a port called Carrier Gas In. It then goes through the oven and returns to the injection port by the heated transfer line which is spliced into the other half of the line that would normally go from the GC Flow controller to the GC Inlet. This is how we had our old P&T GC/MS setup years ago with the 105mx0.53 Rtx 502.2 column then into jet separator before going into the MS. I also used the same setup on an FID minus the Jet Separator for doing GRO analysis.

The pressure gauge on the P&T that is labeled Trap Back Pressure adjust the backpressure on the outlet of the trap during purging to give sharper peaks by compressing the adsorbtion bands of the analytes in the trap. This setting has nothing to do with the carrier flow at all, only the purge flow of the sample path.

If it is the older non-purged inlet you will have more problems with septum bleed. If you are not using the septa for injections you may want to us a teflon faced septa and see if that helps. You could also be having problems from the column placed too high up into the injection port. I had an analyst do this once and he was getting really bad chromatograms with humps and split peaks, I checked the inlet and he had pushed the column nearly up to the septa, it should only be installed a few millimeters above the ferrule, at the bottom of the inlet. We also have run the setup bypassing the injection port completely just using a zero dead volume connector to join the transfer line to the column. Flow control remains the same you just lose the ability to do a manual injection for trouble shooting purposes. You can actually remove the injection port completely while keeping the flow controller in place. With the heater and thermocouple disconnected the GC will simply think the port is not there and not give any errors.

As for the drifting baseline, another problem could be the multiport valve in the P&T oven. It can become contaminated or it can leak causing similar problems. It is a Valco valve with a vespel rotor. The vespel section can adsorb contaminates and cause problems or it can become scratch and leak giving erratic flows. You can remove the vespel rotor by unscrewing the knurled fitting on top of the valve(not the hex screw in the center, that adjusts the tension on the valve) then stepping the instrument to rotate the rotor which will knock it loose then lift it out with forceps or a strong magnet. You can inspect the rotor, it will have small notches that connect adjoining ports together. Clean the notches with a swab soaked in Methanol, or sonicate in methanol if you think it is contaminated. The valve on the 16 position is similar but is a total pain in the you know what to get realigned, but if you ever take it apart I do have a trick to make realignment easy ;)

There also used to be a setup sold that would allow you to connect a syringe to the top of the trap connector, and backflush the whole flow path with methanol or water back to the sparger. I used to do this while it was hot to steam clean the system when a sample foamed.

Also make sure your column is not installed to high in the detector as it can cause problems with baseline too. A deformed jet tip can also cause strange problems with signals, have you tried another jet yet?
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
Ok,

So I tried what you suggested on cleaning the vespel rotor and it did help with the contamination peaks I was getting towards the end of the run. It was scratched around the outside so I changed it out with one that we had around and cleaned it up. It did not help with the drift though. This is what I get on a blank run:

Image

I trimmed both ends of the column as well to make sure everything was installed properly. I have replaced the jet with a new one. That did not make any difference. James_Ball, you have it all right on the gas connections and flow directions.

Does anyone have any other suggestions? If I were to make the direct connection with the transfer line to the column could someone give me guidance on that? I am not sure what exactly to eliminate or what I might need to make the new connection.
So you are using a 0.53 column. We were using a 0.45 for headspace ETOH injecting all of our 100ul loop. I don't think you need to split at all.
Measure your column flow with a flow meter. Turn off all gases to the FID including make up, what's left is column flow.
Do you have the option of taking photos of your set up and posting them? The connection @ injection port and the rear of the headspace unit.
So you are using a 0.53 column. We were using a 0.45 for headspace ETOH injecting all of our 100ul loop. I don't think you need to split at all.
Measure your column flow with a flow meter. Turn off all gases to the FID including make up, what's left is column flow.
Do you have the option of taking photos of your set up and posting them? The connection @ injection port and the rear of the headspace unit.

I am using a .53 column yes. I am not running a split system so I am not sure what you mean about splitting. My column flow is 7 ml/min.

Image

So my inlet looks similar to the one on the top in this photo. My tranfer line is connected on the side like that one.
The latest chromatogram is very similar to the one that you posted on Sept 11th, so at least the problem is consistent.

To re-iterate - you do NOT have baseline drift, you have contaminants in the system that are eluting as peaks of different widths. If you eliminate the contaminants the problem will be solved.

On the photo of the hardware I do not see any connection between an inlet and a transfer line, which is puzzling.

You have a column head pressure of 18 psi and a flow of 7 ml/min in a 0.53 mm column. What carrier gas are you using, and what is its purity grade ?. Do you have scrubbers on the gas line ?

From the look of the chromatogram you are running a temperature programme. What is it ?

Peter
Peter Apps
Yes my problem is very consistent. Its seems I have elliminated to peaks at the end on the chromat by cleaning the vespel rotor but as you can see that did not help with the contaminants in the GRO range of which I need clean the most. The transfer line (/carrier gas on photo attached) connects to the inlet at the bottom which is why you are not able to see it.

Image

I am using Helium as a carrier gas and its 99.999% pure. I don't have scrubbers on the gas line but never have. Could this be an issue that could just all of a sudden appear? My supervisor thinks we shouldn't need them with that purity of gas.

My temperature program is:

Image

Any suggestions?
On the diagram of the inlet, where is the upper end of the column ?, and what kind of liner (if any) do you have in there ?

What kind of connector (size and manufacturer) do you use to connect the end of the transfer line to the stainless tube that feeds the gas into the bottom of the inlet ?

If you inject 1 ul of the gas from a cigarette lighter through the inlet septum, what does the peak look like and how long does it take to elute ?

Peter
Peter Apps
In the diagram of the inlet, the upper end of the column goes to right where the glass insert begins (between the 2 ferrules).

I do have a glass insert 3mm OD x 0.06mm wall, 93mm long.

I have a 2 1/16 inch stainless steel nuts with a union in between with some stainless steel ferrules. All the pieces were manufactured but Swagelok.

As for the 1uL of butane this is what I got:

Image
The retention of the butane confirms that your carrier flow is more or less right.

Next step: disconnect the swagelok nut on the inlet side of the connection of the transfer line to the inlet. Disconnect the column from the inlet and plug the bottom of the inlet with a nut and blank ferrule or something similar. Connect the column to the union at the end of the transfer line. If you are lucky you can use the nut and ferrule that were previously on the bottom of the inlet (it depends what converter fitting you have there). Do not force anything. If the nut and ferrule do not match the union you need another 1/16 inch swagelok nut and a 0.8 mm vespel/graphite or graphite ferrule. At the flows you are using the internal volume of a 1/16 inch swagelok is not an issue.

Restore gas flows and pressure sand check for leaks.

Run the test the generated the chromatogram that you posted on the 8th Oct.

Post.

Peter
Peter Apps
I was not able to make that connection between the column and the transfer line. I do not have the connector I would need and there was nothing on my inlet that would allow that connection. I must not have the correct converter fitting. Was this process to check for contamination in the inlet? Is there any other way?
You have a 1/16 inch swagelok at the end of the transfer line. The only extra materials you need to connect the column to the transfer line is a 1/16 inch swagelok nut and a 0.8 mm ferrule. You work with 0.53 mm i.d. columns, so you must have 0.8 mm ferrules somewhere, and I would be surprised if there is not a 1/16 inch swagelok connector somewhere as well.

The most likely cause for the contamination is the inlet septum. By making a direct connection between transfer line and column you eliminate not only the septum but also the dead volumes in your current set up.

Despite what your supervisor says, you should have a purifier in your carrier gas line.

Peter
Peter Apps
Oh I was trying to figure out a way to connect the transfer like to the column nut. So I would just take that off completely. I do have those ferrules. I installed a new column yesterday so I will see what that gives me today and if its still not good I will try this connection. I will posted when I have a result.
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