Chromatography Forum

Hi all;
I just want to say that About Bisnettjr2 last comments... You are very right in the money! Is not the explanation for all, but certainly English as no mother language could be sometimes part of the problem; right now for example I would like to say a lot of things about my experience and about what I think is part of the lack of interest on many users; but is hard for me to find the right words; I just can say that I am agree with what the most of you have posted here but I would like to add something else.
I have written things in the past in this Forum, and then when I come back and read it I feel shame for my Self. Fortunately every one always has been very kind with me. I think that little by little I am changing myself from a simple person who just posted queries to a person that from time to time can give an advice or idea and I just hope to contribute to Chromatography community in a very small way (by the way believe it or not that was one of the reasons why I worked in sales for a while).
Sometimes I really would like to put in my CV that I am a chromatography forum member since Feb 2005 I have posted more than 100 times (not so impressive for some of you) but now I am also going through what it could be the end of my chromatography journey, but that is something that maybe I discuss with you in another tread.

Thanks.

Oscar

The concern is not with mastering English, except if extreme sloppiness is evident. Rather such things are meant as correcting procedure in three different postings (it used to be, and still is, annoying to have to pull info out of the "nose" of people, but to be given wrong info . . . . . ?), not recognizing the obvious (how can a mobile phase that has no tendency to precipitate components suddenly plug a fluorescence detector cell?), giving advice that is straight out of a book, but doesn´t apply, not even know rudimentary chemistry (getting belligerant when someone politely asks whether Na ion or Na metal is referred too), and so forth.

Sigh!

I suspect that some of this is the fruit of popularity. In the past year, the number of visitors has almost tripled to something like 48,000 in the last month. I suspect that the concentration of "naive" posts is pretty much constant, but they are more visible because the total is up. The bad news is that naive answers to some of those questions do get posted. The good news is that we have enough experienced chromatographers to correct most of those.

As an aside on language issues: over the past month, Forum visits from the US, UK, Canada, and Australia run to just over 50% of the total, with India accounting for an additional 7.4%. I'm an anglophone who can "get by" in French, and I know how hard it is for me to put together technical information in a second language . That gives me a great deal of admiration for people like Hans or Kostas Petritis who can communicate perfectly in two (or more) languages. It also gives me a great deal of sympathy for any awkwardness from members who are not comfortable in English.

I thought it might be useful to have the "New Post" button be accompanied by extra fields, like Instrument type, separation mechanism, column name and dimensions, mobile phase, gradient parameters, detection method, analytes, etc - some sort of multi-field fill-in-the-blanks form arranged so that a new post in any forum

That's actually a great idea! The current software does allow a "new user" category, but I don't know how much customization I can do with regards to forms, etc. I'll take a closer look at it over the weekend.

Woo-hoo! I actually had a great idea!

I am another of those forum users that mostly lurk and thereby learn some really useful stuff.

I think installing drop-down menus could be a two-edged sword. I use them myself in some databases I maintain. They are great for focusing thinking, and make it easy to enter information. Very nice when I also want to limit choices. However, that is also the problem with drop-downs. Some problems just won't fit well in a drop-down format. Would such a format discourage a more useful description of the problem?

Perhaps first time posters should be required to read detailed instructions before being allowed to post? (Maybe they already are required to do this--it's been awhile since my first post. )

In any case, I favor keeping it civil, avoiding too many acronyms, and if one must make assumptions, assume good intentions.

Hi Mary

I am another of those forum users that mostly lurk and thereby learn some really useful stuff.

I think installing drop-down menus could be a two-edged sword. I use them myself in some databases I maintain. They are great for focusing thinking, and make it easy to enter information. Very nice when I also want to limit choices. However, that is also the problem with drop-downs. Some problems just won't fit well in a drop-down format. Would such a format discourage a more useful description of the problem? If there was a "tongue in cheek smiley" iwould have used it there. Undoubtedly the fringe (and therefore more interesting) problems might not suit a drop down format, but the large majority of questions have a large routine component to them, and in a disturbingly large fraction of these the first post from the experts has to be along the lines of "instrument, column, conditions, sample .....??". If there was a fill-in-the-blanks screen available people could use it if they wanted to, or bypass it if they felt that it was not useful. It probably would have to pop up, because it seems that people do not look around the forum before they fire off their two liners (for sure they do not read the "please post details" sticky). "Tongue in cheek smiley" - how about a menu screen for the experts as well, with drop downs of "read the manual", "check for leaks", etc

Perhaps first time posters should be required to read detailed instructions before being allowed to post? (Maybe they already are required to do this--it's been awhile since my first post. ) There is a sticky.

In any case, I favor keeping it civil, avoiding too many acronyms, and if one must make assumptions, assume good intentions.

Peter

Tom. I am not proud of my English, it is deteriorating, I practically grew up in the US (came there when I was 13), living there for 20 years.

I work with mostly engineers; most think three things about chromatography
1: a monkey can do it
2: most to all GC and LC equipment is simply a "plug and play"
3: it should take no more than a day to develop a completely new method

This goes on until a problem arises and they come in screaming. Once this occurs and the mess gets cleaned up they go back to their original ideas.
Is this because the instrumentation in and of itself is becoming so automated? I do not know, but I do know it gets frustrating. It seems to me that this type of chemistry is becoming more a "black art."
I do know that this building is divided up into groups and some groups have blindly bought instrumentation upon the a company choosing one for them, to have several people run the instrumentation, but no one giving it any up keep.
I think over all this is a combination of 2 things.
1. instrumentation is becoming fully automated and not nearly as expensive.
2. the ratio of users to actual chromatographers is steadily increasing.

My one and halfs cents worth

Will

Hans, if you are not proud of your English, it makes me wonder how I should feel about mine! And forget about the German, French, and Spanish I took in school. Of course, jibberish was my first language and I still manage quite well with it!

Well, people tell me that my German is not so hot either, and the German dialect I learned as a kid is mixed with high German . . . . .
I think Tom also said something about this ratio of non-chromatographers to specialists which willnatalie mentioned. Actually, I don´t consider myself a chromatographer, I am also a user (I started as a pysical organic chemist) who had to develop some things to be able to do a project. Thus it is difficult for me to understand that the disrespect for analytical chemistry, and maybe especially chromatogrphy, seems to be spreading. In my opinion we have not even, literally and configurationally, scratched the surface of understanding underlying phenomena.

The disrespect of analytical chemistry may be a part of a wider phenomenon in our culture. Notice the people who get an understanding of complex inernational events by flipping on the television and getting a few sound bites. Some of us remember when news was gained by opening a newspaper or two (that had something more than opinion columns in it) and reading for a while.

I fear that for many, getting analytical results is like getting the news or or infomation on a number of other important topics - it is desired to be quick and not require critical thinking.

I must have "the life".

I don't experience the disrespect you guys are talking about at all, but I also have the opportunity to present the analytical data I generate within the context of the greater problems we're trying to solve. I frequently get to work on optimizing processes at lab and production scales as well as doing the analytical work and developing methods. The analytical lab is my little domain, but I also get to play freely in the product development labs and sometimes even out on the production floor.

I know that I sometimes frustrate my boss by making her listen to the why behind the what, but she knows why I do it and she's pretty good natured about it. One thing that helps is that I have quite a lot of seniority and know where many of the bodies are buried.

I knew some people who spoke high German when I was learning it. Of course, we may be talking about two entirely different things!

juddc, I am envious of your situation. I used to have the respect you are talking about, but that was a long, long time ago at a company far, far away. Now I feel like I work for the evil empire!

Anyone else think part of the problem is with the TV shows (CSI) and movies that grossly oversimplify analytical work? They seem to give the idea that all one does is put the sample in the instrument and it spits out results in seconds. Or maybe it's just a general disregard for something some people can't or won't bother to try to understand.

So I suppose it has to be asked: should the profession of analytical chemist be a controlled profession (i.e. you can't call yourself an analytical chemist without passing the exams/satisfying the entrance requirements to some regulating body)?

Given the harm that bad analysts can do, maybe it should?