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Kinetex columns/extra-column volume/instrument design

Off-topic conversations and chit-chat.

20 posts Page 2 of 2

So, theoretically, as instrumentation tends towards being able to handle higher pressures (which should negate the issue of longer columns w/ small particles creating said high pressure), and as the ability to efficiently and routinely pack these columns becomes common knowledge, will this eventually become the norm? In 10 years, will a 1500-2500-bar LC running 150-mm columns packed with sub 2-micron columns be commonplace? Or will we head toward a different direction, like SFC or temperature-based liquid chromatography (as offered by the Selerity company, http://www.selerity.com/main/main_products_hplc.html - granted, higher temp = lower pressure, so you'd have to run faster flow rates to keep the pressure high) if the practical pressure limits of running silica-based columns at normal temperatures and flow rates will be soon reached? Also, at what point might you "destroy" a silica particle, by pressure alone, and how small can silica particles actually get? Or are we heading toward nanoparticles???

Also, Uwe, while I would love to have an H-class Acquity with the fancy S-Fusion method development software, I work in one of those labs where the budget and the need are both not there. I think for most of us out there the novelty of sub-2 micron is just that - a novelty. Until the cost of the instrument gets below 100k (Agilent 1290, but I would bet an Acquity is close), most of us won't be able to consider the sub-2 um columns, even at a comparable cost to 2.7 or 3 or 3.5 um columns. Hence my asking about the Kinetex columns, and Bryan offering the 3-um columns - they are a bridge between the dreams and realities of everyday chromatographers. I think, with an Agilent 1200SL, I could hit pressures high enough to utilize the Kinetex columns effectively, or any 3-3.5 micron column.

The crux of this thread, of course, is a bit of theory mixed with hopes/dreams, and also an inquiry into the trends of a field I think I'll be in for another few decades. Heck, maybe 3-um will be the new 5-um, and no one will even think of using 5 micron, and scaling down to a "tried and true" sub 2-micron will be a piece of cake. That'll be the day!

Hi Uwe -

Trash talking, this is great!
--

In reference to "1.7um" particles, "sub 2um" particles, ect...I can't help but think of a question my stats professor used to ask:
Suppose you couldn't swim - and were told the Mean depth of the river was 12 inches. Would you still cross it?

Well, bisnettrj2, Waters understands very well the cost of UPLC is not for everybody. We still sell a lot of Alliance systems, after all. You are right, it is a question of the price/benefit ratio for your company. If the options of superior resolution in a shorter time are not important for you, and you just want a classical work horse, use a classical HPLC system with 4.6 mm columns. There is a continuing trend towards smaller particles, even with classical systems, as one can see for example from Ron Majors’ review articles. What I do object against, though, is the attitude of some column manufacturers to say that there is really no benefit to UPLC and sub-2-micron particles. This is just plainly wrong.

I have driven through most of my life a Toyota Corrola in the US at the US speed limits. The price/benefit ratio was right for me. However, I do remember taking a rental Mercedes on a 5-lane highway near Frankfurt to 250 km/hr…

Uwe, I agree that the benefit to small particles is definitely there, but like you said, the cost/benefit ratio is the driver for us. Do I want an Acquity? Heck yes I do. Would I like five minute runs instead of 60? You bet I would. But if all I do is create more free time for myself because we don't have the sample load to support it, then my lab won't buy into it for me. My argument is from the other side - if I have excess capacity, you can bring in more work. Chicken or egg, I suppose.

155 mph? Fastest I hit was 120 going downhill in a Toyota Camry station wagon. A little frightening, but exciting at the same time.

Imtakt recently launched Presto FF-C18 (2um non-porous ODS).

So now there are 3 options for ~ 2um particles:
porous, micropellicular, and non-porous
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