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Where to turn? Bringing a 5890/5970 GC/MS back on line

Discussions about GC-MS, LC-MS, LC-FTIR, and other "coupled" analytical techniques.

47 posts Page 2 of 4
Carl - Thanks for that. I'll be sure to make a note.

I'm currently at 6 x 10^-5 and the pressure is still dropping.
The turbo pump did make a sound that I didn't like as it was spinning up. But it seems to be functioning properly.

Let's just say that a bearing is going bad. What symptoms would I notice?
The previous vacuum test was just a short test.

When I checked this morning, the system was still under vacuum, but I can't put a number to it because I hvae only an ion gauge and I'm hesitant to turn that on unless I know I have good vacuum already.

Today I pumped it down again, this time over a period of four hours. When spinning up, the turbo pump didn't make the nasty sounding noise this time. Hooray! The system quickly went to the same range of pressure as yesterday, then slowly decreased to about 3.5 x 10^-6 torr after about two hours.

After that, though, the pressure rose back up to about 7 x 10^-6 and stabilized there. Just for jollies, I turned the electronics and heater on and pretended to do an autotune (without PFTBA). The autotune failed, of course, but the system went through its paces properly. Even after turning on the heater and opening the tune valve, the pressure restabilized near 7 x 10^-6.

It's still looking promising, though my tape drive is still not working properly. I replaced the capstan rubber, but the tape drive reports a fault. I suspect that the diameter of the replacement roller is not quite right and that the tape is not moving at the proper speed. This isn't good because I can't go much further without some serious technical information on the drive (a 9144A) and my spectrum libraries are on tape.

Any ideas on the tape drive?
Any ideas on what I need to test next?

Thanks,

Don

Try Scientific Instrument Services or CPI International for replacement multipliers. You may find their pricing acceptable.

BCBC - Thanks. I had found SIS, but was not aware of CPI. I'll take a look.

I have located a technical service manual for the 9144 tape drive. Now to see if I can fix the thing.

Brad Doubray is my contact

Alpha Omega used to have a large stock of old HP tape drives, hard drives, and assorted other odds and ends.
BCBC - Thanks

Ron - I may need that. I'm now troubleshooting at the board level without schematics or anything else much beyond knowing a few signals to look for (from a high level hardware maintenance manual) and what is printed on the circuit board itself.

It appears that the read head is not seeing the keys written on the tape. So either the tape head is gunked up or dead, or else the associated circuitry is misbehaving.

Depending on the cost of the drive, though, it may be better to bite the bullet and upgrade my software so that I can use a modern computer. Unfortunately, that requires a new $2500 I/O board for the MS (plus an HP-IB board for my PC).

I was planning to upgrade the software, but only after I could convince myself that the system could be brought back to life. If a major component has failed, then I would be better off junking this setup and buying a refurbished unit. By the time I complete a software upgrade, including the required additional hardware, I'll have about $10k into the project.

Don Baker
The tape drive works.

I was down to the point of starting to poke around on the circuit board with a scope when the stars finally aligned. In the process I learned a lot about the mechanism worked, especially during its initial song and dance number.

I had to replace the capstan rubber. I followed the instructions at http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=257
(the o-ring method) and it worked perfectly. In personal correspondence with the author of that information, I was told that the diameter of the o-ring is not particularly critical, which would also imply that the durometer of the rubber is not critical.

It turned out that some of the noise that I had thought was indicating damage to the drive mechanism was a normal operational sound. The thing sounds as if it's tearing itself apart. The source of the noise is a stepper motor that is used to adjust the height of the tape head. During initialization, if the drive is having difficulty reading the tape, the stepper will move the tape head to a mechanical stop. Apparently there is no limit switch to stop the motor, so the stepper keeps trying to advance the tape head past the stop, making a horrible clatter. It didn't help that right after making that sound is when the drive would display the dreaded "Fault". So I believed that the sound and the Fault light were related and they were, in a way, but not as directly related as it appeared.

Some of my frustration was partly my own doing. The tapes used by the 9144A tape drive are very special. They are formatted at the factory with "keys" written periodically along the length of the tape. The drive can't recognize a tape without the keys. I had been very leary of using my HP labeled tapes in initial testing, fearing that one of my system tapes or spectrum libraries would be torn up by an errant tape mechanism. I had no reason to believe that one QIC tape was any different from another QIC. So I did a lot of my initial testing with a non-HP branded tape that appeared to have been used as a scratch tape.

Eventually I did learn that the tape is special, but by that time, I had gotten into the habit of reaching for that scratch tape as constant when testing other variables. Well, the scratch tape was apparently from some other system and simply had been tossed in the box when the GC/MS was packed up for sale. It is not readable by the 9144. I searched through the tapes that had an HP label again and found one labeled "Utilities - Not supported". OK. If I have to lose a tape during testing, I could probably lose that one.

It didn't work immediately, but the behavior of the drive changed a little. I had gotten accustomed to how much the head moved and what noises it made (and does it make noises!) and in what order. So the fact that the head moved in a slightly different set of steps and that I was seeing clear evidence of data being read on the scope was pretty exciting. It still made the nasty noises and still faulted, but it was doing _something_.

It took a lot of head cleaning, power cycling, and a couple of cartridge disassemblies, but it continued to get better. At one point I went to eject the cartridge and found that the mechanical eject had been locked. The drive had accepted the tape! The drive faulted during the unload procedure, but the fault appeared to have occured because the tape lost tension. The tape was looped back on itself severely enough that I disassembled the cartridge again and retensioned the tape. The next load was accepted and the unload worked properly.

I reassembled the unit and - with a little trepidation - reinserted the utilities tape.

It worked.


Sometimes things work out

One thing to be aware of is that the tapes are somewhat fragile and fail if used repeatedly. We always used the tape drive for data we were archiving once we did not think we would have to reprocess. There is a lot of shuttling of the tape back and forth during use, and saving a number of small files on a large tape was likely to lead to a failure.
In other discussions, another person suggested that it may be more cost effective for me to bring in a real instrument tech at this point to be sure that the instrument gets set up properly. Since all my preliminary tests up to now indicate that the machine is operating properly, I'm inclined to agree.

So I went off in search of a service technician in my area and found _nothing_. I can usually get my search terms nailed down pretty quickly, but I'm just getting zero useful hits. The Agilent site doesn't list service techs; they want to sell me a Service Plan.

Can anyone refer me to a field service person in the Traverse City, Michigan vicinity?

sorry to hi-jack the thread, but is it possible to link the software to modern and up to date NIST libraries?
mariosapm -

Yes - and no.

Yes, modern libraries do exist, and if you have a license for the older ones, you should be able to find a discount on the update. The bad news is that the ancient HP-UX system has no real means of communicating with modern hardware, so you wouldn't be able to reada the updated libraries without a major software upgrade as well.

For my system, I would need a new computer (the easy part), an HP-IB card for the computer to allow it to talk to the instruments, an I/O board for the MSD, a new ChemStation software license and then, finally, the license for the libraries. Neglecting the cost of the computer, this is about $7500 to upgrade. I plan on investing in the upgrade, but I want to see the system working first.

Don

thanks for the reply.

What is the HP-UX system? Is this some kind of OS?

I have the A.3.03 chemstation (not MS) and have been contemplating upgrade to MS if it is worth it. I can do some searching around for parts and used components and software if necessary and this can be completed over time. But I would like to have the MS options for some application that my lab is not capable of.


Aren't there used options for software and cards?
Summary: There is goop in the oil case of my E2M2 roughing pump: oxidized/old oil. How clean do I need to make the pump? Can I use a solvent to clean up the goop? Should I just put new oil in and forget about it?

I was about to fire the system back up again and noticed that it was very difficult to tell if the roughing pump had sufficient oil. I figured it was time for an oil change anyway, so I drained the pump.

The oil was the color of tea and even after I drained the oil I still couldn't see through the sight glass. I removed the oil case and the remaining oil inside was somewhere between snot and jelly in consistency.

It's easy to clean up the oil case, though I will have to drill out some rivets to get to the sight glass (dumb design - why didn't they use screws?). But I'm mostly concerned about that gunk. How clean should I try to make it? I really don't want to disassemble the vacuum pump unless I absolutely have to. Is there a solvent that would be OK to clean the gunk out with? Would it be better toi simply put new oil in and be done with it, maybe coming back in a few months and replacing the oil again?

I am concerned that if I use a solvent and don't get it all out (which will be close to impossible), any remaining solvent may damage the vanes. The goop doesn't seem to be affecting the function of the pump. It was doing well before I emptied the oil.

I would get out all the goop you can easily reach without drilling rivets or anything else beyond removing screws, refill with fresh oil, then change the oil after a couple of weeks of running.

Don't be surprised if the pump doesn't work as well with fresh oil, the viscosity will be much lower and you may have leaks or other issues. The very viscous oil could help seal small leak and vane problems that will magically appear with fresh oil.

This is kind of a tough choice, dirty oil isn't good for the pump, but clean oil may reveal problems that the dirty oil hides.

Thanks for all the posts on progress. This is great to show others just what is involved in bringing an older piece of equipment back to life.
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