No TIC signal, no data.ms file is beign saved 5973N

[MKD]

Hi,
We have an Agilent 5973N MS which stopped working suddenly. It is not showing TIC when running and no data.ms file is being created. But no error is being shown in the logbook. There is enough space in the hard disk. When I ran the tune, it also did not show any problems. The column is only a few months old. What could be the problem? I received one suggestion that the detector is broken but if that is the case, then how tune is working? Thanks for any help.

[benhutcherson]

Two things:

1. Try a quick power cycle of the MS. I ran into this sometimes on my 5975.

2. Check the sync cable from the GC to the MS. The sync cable is what sends the "on" signal to the MS after the GC run starts, and if something is wrong there the MS will never turn the source on/collect data. Check to make sure it's connected securely at the GC and MS end both, and if in doubt it's worth trying a replacement.

[James_Ball]

I had the sync cable "remote cable as it is sometimes called" go bad on my instrument and had a similar problem. You would think that a cable that carries only a tiny voltage and just hangs there never moving would last forever, but somehow it stopped making the connection. Drove me crazy until I replaced it.

When you make a run watch the display on the 5973 and see if it goes from Ready to Acquiring (or however it is stated on the screen) when the GC starts. If the display on the MS doesn't change then it is probably the cable.

[aldehyde]

Very good call for the remote cable.

If the GC method has a GC detector signal or diagnostic signal, such as the test plot, being saved then this is the symptom you'll see if remote cable is not connected between GC and MS. The software will "start" but the MS will never be notified to prepare for injection, and so the data file would be created with only the test plot or GC detector signal.

If the MS is the only signal being saved then it should abort saying no gc or ms signal collected.

Since the data.ms file is not being created but the data file folder is being fully created I bet this is it. Do you have a GC detector installed? Look in the data file for something like FID1A.ch, or open the data file in DA and see if there is a signal there (other than the MS..)

[MKD]

Thanks for the helpful suggestions. So, today I changed the method and put the sample name and clicked "Ok and Run Method", this appears in the 5973.

Then after pressing the "Start Run" button that stays the same. And no further change was noticed in the 5973. Do you think because of the data cable?
A file named GC01A.ch is created in the data folder.
Thank you

[MKD]

To be clear, even when the attached GC is saying "Run in Progress", the display in the 5973 is still showing "Acquiring Test 5.D".

[benhutcherson]

Did you try power cycling?

[MKD]

Did you try power cycling?

Yes I did. It didn't help.

[benhutcherson]

Thinking out loud again, and I don't have a working 5973 to play with-

I believe that when you load a method from Chemstation, it will get loaded into the MSD also and the display will show the currently active method.

Still, though, the whole system relies on one event completing and the next happening. When I've had a faulty or disconnected sync cable in the past, everything looks "normal" aside from the fact that one event doesn't trigger the next. Most recently I was dealing with this on a 5890 and the autosampler, where the run wouldn't start after injection. Still, though, I've seen MSs not start collecting data because they never received the "go" signal from the GC.

A few other thoughts:

You mentioned you suspected the detector in the MS. If it tunes correctly, this is highly, highly unlikely. Tuning, both the various auto tune algorithms as well as manual tune, is dependent on having a properly functioning electron mulitplier(the detector in this MS). You can look at the last tune report and see the tune voltage of the multiplier. If it's up near 3000V or so, it may be on its way out, but there again autotune would error out if it turns the EM voltage up all the way and still isn't seeing what it wants(specifically, if you watch autotune run, you'll see that it adjusts the EM voltage to get the target 69/219/502 ratios).

[MKD]

Thinking out loud again, and I don't have a working 5973 to play with-

I believe that when you load a method from Chemstation, it will get loaded into the MSD also and the display will show the currently active method.

Still, though, the whole system relies on one event completing and the next happening. When I've had a faulty or disconnected sync cable in the past, everything looks "normal" aside from the fact that one event doesn't trigger the next. Most recently I was dealing with this on a 5890 and the autosampler, where the run wouldn't start after injection. Still, though, I've seen MSs not start collecting data because they never received the "go" signal from the GC.

A few other thoughts:

You mentioned you suspected the detector in the MS. If it tunes correctly, this is highly, highly unlikely. Tuning, both the various auto tune algorithms as well as manual tune, is dependent on having a properly functioning electron mulitplier(the detector in this MS). You can look at the last tune report and see the tune voltage of the multiplier. If it's up near 3000V or so, it may be on its way out, but there again autotune would error out if it turns the EM voltage up all the way and still isn't seeing what it wants(specifically, if you watch autotune run, you'll see that it adjusts the EM voltage to get the target 69/219/502 ratios).

That's what I thought as well. But a much more experienced person than me told me that it could be the detector and not the sync cable. But I went ahead and ordered a DB9 male to male RS232 connector cable (this is what I think is the sync cable). I'll update here after I got the cable. For the detector voltage, it's around 2300, so it's inching towards its end but it still is detecting the standard during the tune. So I am inclined to believe that it is working for now.

[aldehyde]

Can you zip up the data file and share it?

If data.ms is not being created inside that folder it is a problem in the setup of the software, not with the instrument hardware.

If you can see signal that looks fine in manual tune that also hints at it not being a HW problem.