Why don't the manufacturers do these? a place for ideas...

Off-topic conversations and chit-chat.

51 posts Page 1 of 4
There are so many things, day-to-day, that chromatographers must want, and yet don't have. This is a place for you to post your frustrations/ideas, in hopes that they'll be blatantly stolen, patented, and implemented by friendly manufacturers. Here's my collection; some definitely exist in some packages already, others probably do, but I haven't found them:

(1) Conditional sample sequences: if line 1's peak of compound A is too small, proceed to line 2 (inject more, or a more concentrated sample), otherwise skip to line 3.

(2) Calculate the inner product of an LC-MS spectrum and the same spectrum shifted X units left. Soooo useful for neutral losses. This just means take a copy of the spectrum, move it X units leftwards, multiply each intensity of ion in the region where the two spectra overlap by its corresponding value in the other unshifted spectrum, and sum all the values. If you have a peak that fragments to something X units lighter (source fragmentation), it will be intense in both the unshifted and the shifted spectrum, and you get a big signal. This really does work, and is a valuable addition to single quads, and useful in ion-traps, where it will pick up things that weren't chosen for data-dependent fragmentation.

(3) One that exists already, but ought to be universal: calculate the solvent necessary to complete the gradient.

(4) A pressure-burst "fuse" for fluorescence cells. Surely someone must be able to make something a little cheaper than a fluorescence cell that will break just before the expensive cell does? Even just a pressure-valve liquid equivalent of the safety valve on a boiler would be great.
OK, I'll throw two in;

An equilibrium headspacer that gives repeatability of <0.3%.

An XY sensor that detects a slightly bent needle on an autosampler and stops it committing suicide on the next injection.

Peter
Peter Apps
Great ideas (especially the slightly bent needle).

1)Every HPLC software/system has an upper pressure limit (most have lower too). Current software I'm using can store a pressure profile for a method which tracks the pressure over the course of a typical run. You can then have the system go into a pause mode if the profile is not typical for the method. This should be universal. It stops someone from performing a complete run using the wrong solvents or the wrong column. Tremendously helpful in a high throughput lab staffed with entry level scientists. It also helps when a 3rd party is called in to help troubleshoot/repair an instrument.

2)I want solvent trays with a weight sensor, and a minimum weight, so that it stops careless people from starting runs without enough mobile phase and running the pump dry. Or even worse, tilting the bottle and balancing it in such a way that it inevitably falls and takes some other things out with it.
lmh wrote:

(4) A pressure-burst "fuse" for fluorescence cells. Surely someone must be able to make something a little cheaper than a fluorescence cell that will break just before the expensive cell does? Even just a pressure-valve liquid equivalent of the safety valve on a boiler would be great.


This can be achieved with a back-pressure regulator on a tee between the column and detector, and opposed to inline with the flow of solvent. It looks something like this:

Column-----T-----Detector
................|
................|
...............BPR-----Waste

Just pick a BPR designed to generate a pressure slightly lower than what your cell will tolerate. If the pressure in that section of tubing exceeds the pressure the BPR is supposed to generate, the BPR will open and solvent will flow out of it so long as the pressure remains above that point. If you can't find a BPR of the right value, you can put them in series like resistors in a circuit to get the right value.
Thanks for that, ScottHorn.

I like the bent-needle detector, Peter!

Paulw, what a wonderful way to use the pressure read-back. On mistakes of solvent: one of my clients found by accident that here synthetic product was bright green in methanol and a gorgeous blue in acetonitrile. I suggested that she might be able to make a very limited commercial success of it as a solvent-indicator paper. Turned out the idea had already been patented (unsurprisingly) - so why can't I find the product on sale??
lmh wrote:
Thanks for that, ScottHorn.

I like the bent-needle detector, Peter!

Paulw, what a wonderful way to use the pressure read-back. On mistakes of solvent: one of my clients found by accident that here synthetic product was bright green in methanol and a gorgeous blue in acetonitrile. I suggested that she might be able to make a very limited commercial success of it as a solvent-indicator paper. Turned out the idea had already been patented (unsurprisingly) - so why can't I find the product on sale??


Someone patented it and decided they may not make much money on it, but hold the patent just in case someone else figures out how to make money from it but still keep them from doing it. Sadly it happens more than we realize.
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
paulw wrote:
Great ideas (especially the slightly bent needle).

1)Every HPLC software/system has an upper pressure limit (most have lower too). Current software I'm using can store a pressure profile for a method which tracks the pressure over the course of a typical run. You can then have the system go into a pause mode if the profile is not typical for the method. This should be universal. It stops someone from performing a complete run using the wrong solvents or the wrong column. Tremendously helpful in a high throughput lab staffed with entry level scientists. It also helps when a 3rd party is called in to help troubleshoot/repair an instrument.

2)I want solvent trays with a weight sensor, and a minimum weight, so that it stops careless people from starting runs without enough mobile phase and running the pump dry. Or even worse, tilting the bottle and balancing it in such a way that it inevitably falls and takes some other things out with it.


2) I would settle for a simple inert float sensor that would do the trick. Agilent systems will calculate usage and shutdown before running out, but you have to remember to tell it how much you have to start with or it will still run our, or worse shutdown during the run thinking it is empty when it is half full(ask me how I know this )
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
James_Ball wrote:
paulw wrote:
Great ideas (especially the slightly bent needle).

1)Every HPLC software/system has an upper pressure limit (most have lower too). Current software I'm using can store a pressure profile for a method which tracks the pressure over the course of a typical run. You can then have the system go into a pause mode if the profile is not typical for the method. This should be universal. It stops someone from performing a complete run using the wrong solvents or the wrong column. Tremendously helpful in a high throughput lab staffed with entry level scientists. It also helps when a 3rd party is called in to help troubleshoot/repair an instrument.

2)I want solvent trays with a weight sensor, and a minimum weight, so that it stops careless people from starting runs without enough mobile phase and running the pump dry. Or even worse, tilting the bottle and balancing it in such a way that it inevitably falls and takes some other things out with it.


2) I would settle for a simple inert float sensor that would do the trick. Agilent systems will calculate usage and shutdown before running out, but you have to remember to tell it how much you have to start with or it will still run our, or worse shutdown during the run thinking it is empty when it is half full(ask me how I know this )


Hi James

A float sensor could be made from a mercury tilt switch and a bit of glass tube. You dangle it in the bottle and as long as there is liquid it floats horizontally on the surface, as the liquid drops the switch hangs on its lead, the mercury shifts and the switch closes (or opens). They are standard equipment in water tanks around here to stop pumps either overfilling the tanks or running themselves to death when the tank is empty. I'm not sure how you would interface it to the HPLC - probably there is an external ready- not ready contact you could use.

Peter
Peter Apps
Peter Apps wrote:
James_Ball wrote:
paulw wrote:
Great ideas (especially the slightly bent needle).

1)Every HPLC software/system has an upper pressure limit (most have lower too). Current software I'm using can store a pressure profile for a method which tracks the pressure over the course of a typical run. You can then have the system go into a pause mode if the profile is not typical for the method. This should be universal. It stops someone from performing a complete run using the wrong solvents or the wrong column. Tremendously helpful in a high throughput lab staffed with entry level scientists. It also helps when a 3rd party is called in to help troubleshoot/repair an instrument.

2)I want solvent trays with a weight sensor, and a minimum weight, so that it stops careless people from starting runs without enough mobile phase and running the pump dry. Or even worse, tilting the bottle and balancing it in such a way that it inevitably falls and takes some other things out with it.


2) I would settle for a simple inert float sensor that would do the trick. Agilent systems will calculate usage and shutdown before running out, but you have to remember to tell it how much you have to start with or it will still run our, or worse shutdown during the run thinking it is empty when it is half full(ask me how I know this )


Hi James

A float sensor could be made from a mercury tilt switch and a bit of glass tube. You dangle it in the bottle and as long as there is liquid it floats horizontally on the surface, as the liquid drops the switch hangs on its lead, the mercury shifts and the switch closes (or opens). They are standard equipment in water tanks around here to stop pumps either overfilling the tanks or running themselves to death when the tank is empty. I'm not sure how you would interface it to the HPLC - probably there is an external ready- not ready contact you could use.

Peter


I can see that working. Encase the glass mercury switch in a PEEK housing using Viton seals where the leads would exit. Shape the PEEK housing as a triangle with point downward so that once it touches the bottom it will tilt over. A simple TTL open/closed input on the instrument would do the rest.
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
James I like your thinking. Going one step further - the liquid sensor sits on the bottom (which PEEK will naturally do) but has enough bouyancy to hold it vertical. As the liquid gets low the sensor tips over. I was thinking of taking the leads out through a bit of that really thin PEEK tube so that there are no non-HPLC materials in contact with mobile phase. Cloud funding anyone ??? :lol:

Peter
Peter Apps
Better yet, wireless :)
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
James_Ball wrote:
Better yet, wireless :)

Until your HPLC won't work because there is a tilted switch in the drawer three benches over :?

Having just had to have a dead vehicle taken on a flat bed truck 600 km to the nearest garage with the right diagnostics I am firmly of the opinion that you can have too much technlogy.

Peter
Peter Apps
Peter Apps wrote:
James_Ball wrote:
Better yet, wireless :)

Until your HPLC won't work because there is a tilted switch in the drawer three benches over :?

Having just had to have a dead vehicle taken on a flat bed truck 600 km to the nearest garage with the right diagnostics I am firmly of the opinion that you can have too much technlogy.

Peter


True. That is why I am currently driving a vehicle that still has a carburetor on it lol.
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
James_Ball wrote:
That is why I am currently driving a vehicle that still has a carburetor on it lol.


Me, too !!! Actually, me "two": 1988 Mazda B2200 truck daily driver (19 years), and 1971 VW Convertible (37 years).
I suspect that the only*real* problem is that we want all of these things but are not willing to pay for them...
Thanks,
DR
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