5971 Source Maintenance

Discussions about GC-MS, LC-MS, LC-FTIR, and other "coupled" analytical techniques.

9 posts Page 1 of 1
I've had a call to come out and help move a 5890/5971, and am suggesting that we do the source maintenance at the same time.

It's been a long time since I've actually worked with a 5971, and at the time I didn't do any maintenance on it.

I can virtually disassemble, clean, and reassemble a 5973 or 5975 in my sleep, but I can't find any documentation on the 5971(or even a manual online). The diagrams I've found show something that LOOKS very similar to the 5973/5975 source, albeit with slightly different looking filament assemblies.

Are there any pitfalls or major differences I need to be aware of on a 5971? I know where there's one in the department that's been mothballed and I can go and take a look at it(I've actually been trying to talk the owner out of it) but I'd really like to see some actual instructions whether from the manual or elsewhere before I dig into the functional one.
I found this exploded view on line -

http://www.aimanalytical.com/Manuals/Ag ... source.pdf

there are some youtube and vimeo videos out there still hanging around but it looks like agilent took whatever they might have had on it down. I actually found a word document step by step with photos in ms word in an old folder on this PC but can't figure out how to download it. I'll peruse the forum to see if I can figure that out -
Thanks for the response. I had come across that document also, but unfortunately that seems to be it. At least Agilent still stocks and sells filaments.

Funny enough, I can find a lot more info on stuff like my Varian Saturn 2000 and my Finnigan LCQ Duo online...although I don't need it necessarily since I have books for both. Those are both from long-gone companies, too, and as best as I can tell Agilent has pretty much tried to obliterate any acknowledgment of Varian GCs and MSs...

In any case, if it would be any easier is there any chance you could attach it to an email? lbhutc01@louisville.edu

Thanks.
We had the very first 5971 in our state; I remember that our CEO (for some strange reason, but he was strange) had demanded that all capital items be on site by Dec. 31 of that year. I was going to contact HP and get them to ship a box of rocks or just empty just to satisfy that condition, but they assured me it would arrive on Dec. 31, and it did.

It arrived in a large box on a pallet, with tip sensors on it; I later made the shipping box into a doghouse.

Anyway, back on topic, the 5971 is not altogether that different from later models. I'm retired, we did have a video from HP about this, for 5971. I mean HP, before Agilent spin-off. It was on VHS tape. We actually borrowed a TV/VCR on a cart to watch this the first time I had to clean detector and replace filament. Important not to have vacuum leak at top seal.
Except for the source heater on the 7973 and up they are essentially the same. If I remember correctly the repeller assembly is held the same way the heater is now, or the filament screws hold it down, that is the only thing I can't remember off hand. If you find a diagram for a 5972, that will be the same source as the 5971.

Very easy to clean. The large brass fitting on the side makes contact with the transfer line tip to passively heat the source. Also some will have lens insulators that are a single piece that you have to pry open to remove the entrance and ion focus lens, while others are two piece. Otherwise just clean like a 5973.
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
Thanks guys for the responses, and also for the source cleaning with pictures.

It looks straight forward enough-it does indeed look like standard 5373/5735 cleaning once you lift the analyzer out.

Now for the bad news-apparently this system hasn't been under vacuum in under ~5 years. I'm leaning on them to order at least one filament before I get there, but I'm not getting any response to that. I can't "bail them out" and pay myself back since I don't keep those filaments on-hand. I might see if I can pillage one from the mothballed instrument I've looked at and pay it back(since I'm hoping to get that one of these days anyway) just in case I get there and find that I don't have a good filament to work with.

Also, they have a second 5890 that's also been out of service for a bunch of years that has an ECD and NPD. I pretty well know the NPD is going to be dead...since I know they don't respond well to being "cold" and open to the atmosphere for years a couple of years, and I'm afraid that the Ni-63 in the ECD is going to be weak also.

It may end up being a bigger mess than I expected when I do actually get there, but we'll see.
We once got a 5890 GC shipped to us from manufacturing facility warehouse. It turned out that they used house air from an oil-lubed compressor to feed its FID, and there was oil throughout the FID and the whole column compartment. We tore opn the cabinet, removed insulation we could, cleaned up as best we could, and stuffed with fiberglass tape. We could only use this GC under 200C because it would smell of oil at higher temperatures.

I guess their cost savings try boomeranged on that.
Consumer Products Guy wrote:
We once got a 5890 GC shipped to us from manufacturing facility warehouse. It turned out that they used house air from an oil-lubed compressor to feed its FID, and there was oil throughout the FID and the whole column compartment. We tore opn the cabinet, removed insulation we could, cleaned up as best we could, and stuffed with fiberglass tape. We could only use this GC under 200C because it would smell of oil at higher temperatures.

I guess their cost savings try boomeranged on that.


Reminds me of when I worked on a client's GC/ECD they were using for PCB analysis. It was an old PE, the one you lifted to top on to change columns.

They showed me their chromatogram and couldn't figure out why they had low sensitivity. When we started it up I noticed after power on the chart recorder pen moved all the way across the paper. Turns out it was simply maxed out and the peaks they were seeing were actually negative peaks. I began to trace their plumbing and with stainless steel at the instrument it then went into black rubber hose that is used on air brakes on trucks, which then terminated with a regulator attached to a plain red painted tank of hydrogen :lol:

Took a while to get that one into shape.
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
Alright, the deed is kind of done.

I actually physically transported two 5890s(one with the 5971 and FID, the other with an NPD and ECD) from one university to another, and spent the day getting them situated in their new home.

Both had been under a service contract a few years ago, but I was told that they'd not been used since he last visited. I PROBABLY could have skipped the source cleaning on the 5971, but figured I didn't have anything.

It really was just about like the 5975 and the whole thing was straight forward. It also looked to have minimal time since the last service as the repeller and lenses were spotless. There was some discoloration next to one of the filaments-I've been told that this is probably one of the least important places to clean(and also that the repeller is most important) but I've always polished it anyway. I did give the repeller and everything else a quick alumina/methanol polish, but it didn't take me that much work.

Unfortunately, the issues arose when I started powering it up. The computer didn't have a hard drive in it, and the best they could figure was that the last service guy had adopted a "scorch earth" policy when they discontinued the contract. So, I'm going to be hunting down a copy of MSD ChemStation A or B and I also need at least the NIST library. The PI mentioned that he had a couple of other libraries, but I'm guessing anything beyond NIST might be difficult. In any case, I left it with 1psi of head pressure and the rough pump running, so it should hopefully come right up with software.

Fortunately, the ECD/NPD unit mostly came right up. I was worried about the NPD, but the PI told me that he'd needed to burn money on a grant years ago and had bought a bunch of spare beads. He also was set up to recoat them. That was all in storage, but I was able to get peaks on the standard I used(diethyl amine, ethylene diamine, and triphenylphospine) after heating the bead for an hour and at a setting of around 600.

I did have a bit of a weird problem with the autosampler on the ECD (both instruments are configured with a tower on each inlet). The tray would pick up and place the specified vial in the tower(rear injector for the ECD) but it would just stop there. The "ready" light would remain green on the tower-just nothing else would happen. I'm not sure where the problem was, as I swapped towers all around and all four towers worked fine on the front inlet but gave the same behavior on the rear inlet. The only thing I didn't try was swapping the 7673 control boxes between the systems. In any case, I ended up making a manual injection into the ECD column and it was fine.
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