LNI SWISSGAS vs PEAK for N2 generator

Discussions about GC-MS, LC-MS, LC-FTIR, and other "coupled" analytical techniques.

8 posts Page 1 of 1
G'day everyone,

We are looking for a new N2 generator and have comparable pricing for 70L/min unit from LNI (model NG Castore XL IQ 70) and PEAK (Genius XE70). This will be used for our Thermo Orbitrap Exploris 120 LCMS and although overkill at 70L/min, its also to plan for future LCMS acquisition and as redundancy of our current Parker LCMS20 unit that services our aging Waters LCT Premier XE and provide gas to HPLC-ELSD.
The NG Castore XL IQ 70 is stated as having capability for producing UHP nitrogen for collision cell gas for GCMS, for us that's the Thermo Q-Exactive Orbitrap. Can't see that provision with the Genius XE model.

A main difference between the two is LNI provide scroll built-in oil less compressor which im led to believe(!) means less maintenance issues than with standard compressor of the Genius XE.......

Has anyone opinions on or experience with LNI Swissgas, in regard to product quality and reliability overall, even if not for N2 generation?
PEAK have a good name in this field.

Many thanks for any advice, comments and tips.
Greg
I would ask thermo engineer for recomendations. I would also get a full service/warranty contract. The ms is very expensive to own so to me it makes sense to get a service contract that guarantees you will have n2 for it. Also, servicing the Peak Genius compressor is a bit of work I would not like to do it myself. We bought 5year contract from peak for peace of mind as we are guaranteed quick service and less paper work that way, also decent price.

1)Ask thermo enginer for recommendation
2)Negotiate best price for system with 5-year full service contract included.

That is what i would do. Also, I have heard horror stories of n2 generators contaminating ms systems with filter debri when failing so would not skip pm.
G'day per-oxid,

Thank you for taking the time to provide some advice/input. Indeed we are looking at 5 year full PM support/warranty in addition to purchase. You are so correct that the significant investment for the MS setup needs the insurance of ongoing quality N2. We do have quotes form Thermo and direct from PEAK Australia, strange thing, Thermo is some $10K (AUD) cheaper on purchase price for the XE70.Even if we don't go for 5yr PM plan., annual pay as you go PM will be a matter of course

Cheers
Greg
(1) Collision gas: if your concern is provision of collision gas for the QExactive, don't worry about this in the context of the generator. It's going to use so, so little collision gas that you can provide high-quality gas from a cylinder, and one medium-sized cylinder will last you half of all eternity. The collision gas is totally independent of the gas supply for the spray chamber.
(2) Look very carefully at the pricing, including ongoing contract pricing. If you think Thermo are including maintenance of the nitrogen generator in their service contract, ask them again, and when they say yes, make them put it in writing, in block capitals, signed twice in indelible ink by their global managing director in the presence of witnesses. At least here, mass spec manufacturers happily sell Peak generators but always leave the servicing to be sorted out between you and Peak. What they say they'll do, when you're considering buying a mass spec, and what actually happens when you buy it, are potentially not the same.
(3) Peak generators used to be very cheap to buy, very expensive to service. I don't know if this is still the case, but check properly.
(4) Shop around, there are lots of companies able to generate nitrogen.
(5) If your lab is expanding, think very carefully about whether you want individual generators in boxes, or a fixed generator in a plant room. The boxed systems are easy, because you can just plug them into the mass spec and they can sit in a corner of the lab, but they have big disadvantages. They are noisy; not as noisy as they used to be, with better-designed casework, but a compressor always makes some noise, and it gets worse as they age; the internal compressor always exposes the remainder of the instrument to vibration, which shortens everything's life, no matter how carefully mounted the compressor is; you are paying for all that cladding, which is also a compromise between quiet operation and effective cooling, which also means the compressors run hotter than would be ideal. And you can't put the box very far from the instrument if you want to run 70L/min down a 1/4" tube - the pressure drop will be too big. You'll very soon find that you want your generators in a separate plant room because they're bulky and getting noisier, and then you'll need a fixed pipeline to carry the gas, and once you've done that, you'll find that for the price of two generators in nice cases you could have bought a single large, fixed nitrogen generation installation that has the combined capacity of eight of the nice generators in cases... and is cheaper to run and maintain. With the fixed installation you can choose whatever compressor you want, and have it mounted on a nice concrete floor that doesn't shake the generator to bits. Remember, also that as the compressors age, the working pressure and capacity tend to fall; I have no idea of the general level of optimism of the two companies you're using, but you are quite right to go for excess capacity. I would be very unhappy about relying on a nominally 70L/min unit to supply a genuine 60L/min demand reliably for a year.
Dear lmh,

Thank you kindly for taking the time to provide your valuable insights in this query, very much appreciated.

You raise some very pertinent points, which we are across in our decision making, especially the service contract arrangement and what this actually entails.

Whilst the provision of UHP N2 for collision gas was not a deal clincher, we do like this capability in terms of backup N2 supply from the one box for LCMS and LC-ELSD instruments.

We also very much liked the footprint of the LNI unit, being an under the bench 70L/min model versus to 1 m tall Peak unit.

Also, where the 70L/min provision of HP N2 may well be way more than our current needs, for future planning and the ability to run the generator at lower rates where > % purity is delivered, we decided on this rather than a 35L/min model.

Our final decision was to go with the LNI Swissgas Castore XL iQ Nitrogen Generator.

I'll do my best to post the occasional update on its performance as time goes by.

RIP Charlie Watts.
Would be nice to hear how it works out and the level of service to expect. Good to have a few good options for future procurements.
Yes, it's always great to know how things are going on these different systems, and the quality of service from the different manufacturers. I always appreciate feedback. For years we operated a small fleet of Domnick Hunter LCMS30 units which were pretty good, but eventually increased demand, both for quantity and pressure, prompted us to swap them for a fixed installation.
Hello ,

I am also looking at utilizing LNI swissgas for a LCMS application. How has the system performed for you?
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