Agilent 5975T - first GC/MS purchase

Discussions about GC-MS, LC-MS, LC-FTIR, and other "coupled" analytical techniques.

35 posts Page 1 of 3
Hello!

I'm being offered a used Agilent 5975T with dry scroll pump for 30k $ by official Agilent representative.

Is there anything I should be aware about the system?
It's supposed to be mobile integrated GCMS (small footprint, small heat generation etc) that's been used as a backup GCMS for multiple companies.

My needs are pretty much any simple single quad and this will be sufficient for my purposes, but I am not sure how are the costs and support involved. Generally, Agilent has good rep for support around here.

Shimadzu is offering me their newest GCMS SQ system straight out of box with 2 year warranty for less than twice as much, because I'm valued customer, so I'm tempted to consider that offer - I'm thinking the higher initial cost might result in lower cost of ownership, if it lasts me twice as much. Shimdzu service is cheaper as well, not sure about the parts.

I'm not experienced with GC, as I'm more of an LC guy, so any input will be appreciated. I'm getting GCMS with NIST mostly for identification purposes of small molecules and quantification of some, that lack chromophores.

Thank you.
janoshik wrote:
Hello!

I'm being offered a used Agilent 5975T with dry scroll pump for 30k $ by official Agilent representative.

Is there anything I should be aware about the system?
It's supposed to be mobile integrated GCMS (small footprint, small heat generation etc) that's been used as a backup GCMS for multiple companies.

My needs are pretty much any simple single quad and this will be sufficient for my purposes, but I am not sure how are the costs and support involved. Generally, Agilent has good rep for support around here.

Shimadzu is offering me their newest GCMS SQ system straight out of box with 2 year warranty for less than twice as much, because I'm valued customer, so I'm tempted to consider that offer - I'm thinking the higher initial cost might result in lower cost of ownership, if it lasts me twice as much. Shimdzu service is cheaper as well, not sure about the parts.

I'm not experienced with GC, as I'm more of an LC guy, so any input will be appreciated. I'm getting GCMS with NIST mostly for identification purposes of small molecules and quantification of some, that lack chromophores.

Thank you.


What is the main object for which you want to buy a GCMS?

I tell you that I have been working with Agilent Technologies instruments for more than 10 years and in comparison in capacity and sensitivity I think they win. On the other hand, depending on your main application of this equipment, you define what you want to buy. If you need libraries, I have some available that can help you with a reasonable charge.

To advise you better, first tell me what the main objective is and so I can tell you what else you can do.

Best regards

Henry
Henrylozano wrote:
What is the main object for which you want to buy a GCMS?

I tell you that I have been working with Agilent Technologies instruments for more than 10 years and in comparison in capacity and sensitivity I think they win. On the other hand, depending on your main application of this equipment, you define what you want to buy. If you need libraries, I have some available that can help you with a reasonable charge.

To advise you better, first tell me what the main objective is and so I can tell you what else you can do.

Best regards

Henry

Thank you for your response, Henry.

I want to buy GCMS for identification of common small molecules - mostly medicine active pharmaceutical ingredients with use of NIST library and quantitative analysis of steroids. No trace analysis, I actually have to dilute most of the samples by three orders of magnitude.

The thing is, 5975T is on market since 2010 as far as I know and I fear the supplies and parts might become unavailable or expensive much sooner than with a new equipment from Shimadzu, which would be 10 years newer, so would probably last longer. Expected use is 5-10 samples a day.
janoshik wrote:
Henrylozano wrote:
What is the main object for which you want to buy a GCMS?

I tell you that I have been working with Agilent Technologies instruments for more than 10 years and in comparison in capacity and sensitivity I think they win. On the other hand, depending on your main application of this equipment, you define what you want to buy. If you need libraries, I have some available that can help you with a reasonable charge.

To advise you better, first tell me what the main objective is and so I can tell you what else you can do.

Best regards

Henry

Thank you for your response, Henry.

I want to buy GCMS for identification of common small molecules - mostly medicine active pharmaceutical ingredients with use of NIST library and quantitative analysis of steroids. No trace analysis, I actually have to dilute most of the samples by three orders of magnitude.

The thing is, 5975T is on market since 2010 as far as I know and I fear the supplies and parts might become unavailable or expensive much sooner than with a new equipment from Shimadzu, which would be 10 years newer, so would probably last longer. Expected use is 5-10 samples a day.



Ok I understand.

However, keep in mind that this equipment is portable you can take it in your van wherever you want and wherever you want without suffering damage. Just as you know your needs very well right now. In the USA you will always find parts of this equipment. In comparison I live in Colombia and although 6890 models are already obsolete, parts are still available here.
I have a 5975, and it's a workhorse of an instrument.

I personally would not worry about long-term parts availability. Agilent still sells the 5973, which is a fair bit older, as a refurbished instrument and a lot of the common consumables are the same between these two instruments.

I can still consumables-and a lot of them directly from Agilent-for a 30 year old 5971.
Thank you! Your insights have been a big help.

I'll see where I can push Agilent and Shimadzu with the price, now that my worries had been addressed.
In my experience, Agilent does not "push" a lot on prices. There are a lot of politics at play in this, but the last I heard(I have no reference for this statistic other than both the local Agilent and Thermo sales reps) Agilent is in the ballpark of a 70% market share for GC-MS.

Thermo and Shimadzu will often either offer better discounts than Agilent, or will up-spec a system for the same price(i.e. offer you things that normally cost extra like the no vent column change or additional software licenses for offline analysis) to try and get your business. As an example, I have a Thermo GC-QQQ-MS quote that has bunches of goodies like that added on to it and is also discounted over $100K off list to bring its pricing in line with Agilent's offering(and no, I didn't buy it-I ended up going for a used Varian for a couple of reasons).

With that said, I don't have the highest opinion of Shimadzu instruments, and I've not talked with a lot of folks who do. When I was looking to buy the specific configuration of QQQ that I just did, I actually intentionally did NOT solicit a Shimadzu quote because I was afraid it would get too close to the instrument I actually wanted and I'd get overrruled on buying a used/refurb unit.
benhutcherson wrote:
In my experience, Agilent does not "push" a lot on prices. There are a lot of politics at play in this, but the last I heard(I have no reference for this statistic other than both the local Agilent and Thermo sales reps) Agilent is in the ballpark of a 70% market share for GC-MS.

Thermo and Shimadzu will often either offer better discounts than Agilent, or will up-spec a system for the same price(i.e. offer you things that normally cost extra like the no vent column change or additional software licenses for offline analysis) to try and get your business. As an example, I have a Thermo GC-QQQ-MS quote that has bunches of goodies like that added on to it and is also discounted over $100K off list to bring its pricing in line with Agilent's offering(and no, I didn't buy it-I ended up going for a used Varian for a couple of reasons).

With that said, I don't have the highest opinion of Shimadzu instruments, and I've not talked with a lot of folks who do. When I was looking to buy the specific configuration of QQQ that I just did, I actually intentionally did NOT solicit a Shimadzu quote because I was afraid it would get too close to the instrument I actually wanted and I'd get overrruled on buying a used/refurb unit.

Thank you.

I inquired with Shimadzu, because Agilent and Shimadzu are the only manufacturers who have a real presence where I'm based at. I have experience with using LCs from Shimadzu and I can't say a single bad word - quite contrary - those instruments survived a LOT without any adverse effects.
The main consumable inside the 5975 will be filaments and electron multipliers and I know for sure the filaments are the same from the 5973-5977 so you will be able to get those for some time to come. Electron multipliers should be easy to get also, and if you have trouble with one from Agilent you can look at something like ETP for a different style, also Restek sells many Agilent parts at a slightly lower price.

I don't have experience with Shimadzu, but will soon since our new 8050QQQ is arriving in a few weeks. I haven't heard anything bad so far, so I am keeping my fingers crossed :)
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
Guys keep in mind the 5975T is SIGNIFICANTLY different than the 5975A, B, C, or E.

The 5975T (shown here https://www.agilent.com/en/products/gas ... msd-system) uses an integrated LTM (low thermal mass) technology for the columns NOT a traditional air bath oven.

I cannot recommend buying this GC, I agree with the others: 5975 is great--but don't get the T. It is discontinued and there are fewer people who are experienced supporting it + a few unique parts that will probably be difficult to find in the future (unlike the 6890/7890 platforms as mentioned.)

If you need something that is transportable I would still recommend something like intuvo/5977 or 7890/5977 (5975 is fine if you can get one that has been well taken care of, but there are good deals on refurbished 5977s.) A 6850 would also be a good GC option for something transportable (6850 is a one inlet / small oven GC that has about half the width of the 6890/7890.)
aldehyde wrote:
If you need something that is transportable I would still recommend something like intuvo/5977 or 7890/5977 (5975 is fine if you can get one that has been well taken care of, but there are good deals on refurbished 5977s.) A 6850 would also be a good GC option for something transportable (6850 is a one inlet / small oven GC that has about half the width of the 6890/7890.)


Good point on the "T" system, and I guess I hadn't realized that the MSD was significantly different.

With that said, another somewhat underrated GC to consider is the 7820. It's also a small form factor GC, although is a bit larger and more full-featured than the 6850. In particular, it can be configured with two inlets and two detectors. It's somewhat newer than the 6850, though.
New 8860 is a very worthy successor to the 7820. The 6850 is getting to be quite old, I agree.. If you can get a good deal on a refurbished Intuvo that is a really great option.
Thank you guys.

So far I'm very disappointed with local Agilent representatives, as the initial offer given during our talks had been 30% lower than the final one (without me adding anything) and even after complaining and shaving off warranty far under acceptable (and previously agreed!) 12 months to 3 months, it's still 20% higher than initial offer that I would take.

I was appalled by that. If I had been told a correct ( ie in 10-15% ballpark) estimate right away, I'd probably go for it, but this way I am not keen to do business.

I've decided to be cheeky and ask for a massive discount at Shimadzu for a brand new system, which would put it about 50% more expensive than several years old 5975T, while offering cheaper parts, maintenance, columns, 24 mo warranty and, it not being an integrated system, versatility.
do you like the skin on your knuckles? avoid this instrument. its been replaced by the intuvo for good reason.
janoshik wrote:
Thank you guys.

So far I'm very disappointed with local Agilent representatives, as the initial offer given during our talks had been 30% lower than the final one (without me adding anything) and even after complaining and shaving off warranty far under acceptable (and previously agreed!) 12 months to 3 months, it's still 20% higher than initial offer that I would take.

I was appalled by that. If I had been told a correct ( ie in 10-15% ballpark) estimate right away, I'd probably go for it, but this way I am not keen to do business.

I've decided to be cheeky and ask for a massive discount at Shimadzu for a brand new system, which would put it about 50% more expensive than several years old 5975T, while offering cheaper parts, maintenance, columns, 24 mo warranty and, it not being an integrated system, versatility.


Price difference on a refurb unit can depend on what they have in house at the moment. If it was very long after the initial quote, that unit could have been sold already and another that required more work to refurb could be what is being sold now.
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
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