Benefits 6890N/5973N vs 6890/5973 GC-MS?

Discussions about GC and other "gas phase" separation techniques.

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Our lab is looking into purchasing a used 6890N/5973N GC-MS. Aside from controlling the GC via ethernet, is there really a major benefit compared to a non-network version?

I can understand if the PC was in a entirely different location, but typically the PC/GC are right next to each other. Is it really worth the extra money to control via ethernet vs. a standard connection?

Any insights would be appreciated.

Thanks
I think there are at least two generation of GPIB cards abandoned by Agilent/HP.
I.e. there IS NO drivers for modern operating systems.
There ARE always drivers for network cards regardless of the PC model.

The only project supporting most existing IEEE-488 (GPIB) cards is Linux GPIB.
But there is NO Agilent software for Linux.

Just for fun: Agilent Chemstation was developed for UNIX (HPUX) but due to love of HP management to M$ was totally abandoned :)

Just a side note: MIO card for 6890 sold by Agilent CAG group costs ~700USD
The same device under the name HP JetDirect card sold by HP Printing solutions
costs ~200USD
antonk wrote:
I think there are at least two generation of GPIB cards abandoned by Agilent/HP.
I.e. there IS NO drivers for modern operating systems.
There ARE always drivers for network cards regardless of the PC model.


The Keysight IO Lib driver version 18.1.24130.0 is working with the obsolete 82350B PCI card and an old Agilent 1100 HPLC tower on Windows 10 and Chromeleon (did not try chemstation LC).

And network cards do not always do what they are expected. Sciex just started a campaign to swap network cards for one whole generation of acquisition workstations due to connection losses.

Anyway, I agree network insturment connection is more future-proof than GPIB.

Jörg
bunnahabhain wrote:
The Keysight IO Lib driver version 18.1.24130.0 is working with the obsolete 82350B PCI card and an old Agilent 1100 HPLC tower on Windows 10 and Chromeleon (did not try chemstation LC).
Anyway, I agree network insturment connection is more future-proof than GPIB.

Jörg


I can easily find ISA machine (industrial PC for example) for 82335 and 82341
But there is no drivers for these host controllers. You are doomed buying new GPIB (i.e. USB 82357 which periodically remembered here on Chromforum with a silent !!!!!#@#$@#@#@ but strong words)
The last version of Chemstion MSD that supports gpib is g1701da which needs Windows XP.

Also a gpib 5973 can not do simultaneous SIM and Scan. Some 5973n cannot either depending on what card they have but can be upgraded.
antonk wrote:
bunnahabhain wrote:
The Keysight IO Lib driver version 18.1.24130.0 is working with the obsolete 82350B PCI card and an old Agilent 1100 HPLC tower on Windows 10 and Chromeleon (did not try chemstation LC).
Anyway, I agree network insturment connection is more future-proof than GPIB.

Jörg


I can easily find ISA machine (industrial PC for example) for 82335 and 82341
But there is no drivers for these host controllers. You are doomed buying new GPIB (i.e. USB 82357 which periodically remembered here on Chromforum with a silent !!!!!#@#$@#@#@ but strong words)

I keep an old Gateway Pentium 3 around for my 5890 as it has an ISA slot for my 82341 card. Though, the HP Kayak is still going strong and running Windows 2000 and G1701BA. I put a new hard drive in a few years back.
I have a 220V 6890+ with a jet direct card and a 5973N with a not fast electronics network card so no simultaneous SIM/SCAN. It can though run G1701EA on Windows 7.

I am able to run G1701EA on Windows 10 for data analysis by enabling Windows 7 compatibility mode. I have not tried G1701EA on Windows 10 for acquisition though.
MSCHemist wrote:
I have a 220V 6890+ with a jet direct card and a 5973N with a not fast electronics network card so no simultaneous SIM/SCAN. It can though run G1701EA on Windows 7.

I am able to run G1701EA on Windows 10 for data analysis by enabling Windows 7 compatibility mode. I have not tried G1701EA on Windows 10 for acquisition though.


We use G1701EA E.02.02 on Windows 10 for acquisition and it works ok. The one pain is if you have two network cards installed, unlike on older OS where you just made the instrument card the primary, on W10 you have to disable the non-instrument card to get MSDChemstation to load, then you can enable the second card and it will run just fine. If you don't disable, it will give the error that the instrument is already connected to another Chemstation.

I dread having to figure out if it will work on Windows 11 if we have to replace any computers soon. I still have one on XP and not sure how long that one will last and sourcing a W7 computer is becoming nearly impossible as most within the group have already been phased out :(
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
James_Ball wrote:
MSCHemist wrote:
I have a 220V 6890+ with a jet direct card and a 5973N with a not fast electronics network card so no simultaneous SIM/SCAN. It can though run G1701EA on Windows 7.

I am able to run G1701EA on Windows 10 for data analysis by enabling Windows 7 compatibility mode. I have not tried G1701EA on Windows 10 for acquisition though.


We use G1701EA E.02.02 on Windows 10 for acquisition and it works ok. The one pain is if you have two network cards installed, unlike on older OS where you just made the instrument card the primary, on W10 you have to disable the non-instrument card to get MSDChemstation to load, then you can enable the second card and it will run just fine. If you don't disable, it will give the error that the instrument is already connected to another Chemstation.

I dread having to figure out if it will work on Windows 11 if we have to replace any computers soon. I still have one on XP and not sure how long that one will last and sourcing a W7 computer is becoming nearly impossible as most within the group have already been phased out :(

I wonder if it would work if the other network card was wifi?
James_Ball wrote:
MSCHemist wrote:
I have a 220V 6890+ with a jet direct card and a 5973N with a not fast electronics network card so no simultaneous SIM/SCAN. It can though run G1701EA on Windows 7.

I am able to run G1701EA on Windows 10 for data analysis by enabling Windows 7 compatibility mode. I have not tried G1701EA on Windows 10 for acquisition though.


We use G1701EA E.02.02 on Windows 10 for acquisition and it works ok. The one pain is if you have two network cards installed, unlike on older OS where you just made the instrument card the primary, on W10 you have to disable the non-instrument card to get MSDChemstation to load, then you can enable the second card and it will run just fine. If you don't disable, it will give the error that the instrument is already connected to another Chemstation.

I dread having to figure out if it will work on Windows 11 if we have to replace any computers soon. I still have one on XP and not sure how long that one will last and sourcing a W7 computer is becoming nearly impossible as most within the group have already been phased out :(


That's why people invented routing.

Btw - single Ethernet card can have 2 IP addresses and so being presented in 2 IP networks simultaneously.

The picture I've seen on big oil processing plant:
1. Corporative-standard Win10 64-bit PC
2. VirtualBox with A.10 ChemStation controlling HP1100
MSCHemist wrote:
I wonder if it would work if the other network card was wifi?


Radio vs Wire is a physical level of OSI model - the lowest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model
Applications like CDS are working with sockets - highest level of OSI, so they do not care if packets go through wire of via radio emission.
James_Ball wrote:
MSCHemist wrote:
We use G1701EA E.02.02 on Windows 10 for acquisition and it works ok. The one pain is if you have two network cards installed, unlike on older OS where you just made the instrument card the primary, on W10 you have to disable the non-instrument card to get MSDChemstation to load, then you can enable the second card and it will run just fine. If you don't disable, it will give the error that the instrument is already connected to another Chemstation.


Yeah... We have several occasional users with varying degrees of computer knowledge, so a lot of times one person would disable the house network to get Chemstation to load and the next person wouldn't be able to use network printers.

My workaround was to write a batch file (just a text file saved with the .bat extension) that briefly disables the other network card while loading chemstation. I saved a shortcut to batch file on the desktop.

FYI:

netsh interface set interface "Ethernet 1" disable
timeout 15
cd C:\msdchem\MSexe\
start mstop.exe 1 ,envtop, envtop.mac
timeout 60
netsh interface set interface "Ethernet 1" enable
MichaelVW wrote:
James_Ball wrote:
MSCHemist wrote:
We use G1701EA E.02.02 on Windows 10 for acquisition and it works ok. The one pain is if you have two network cards installed, unlike on older OS where you just made the instrument card the primary, on W10 you have to disable the non-instrument card to get MSDChemstation to load, then you can enable the second card and it will run just fine. If you don't disable, it will give the error that the instrument is already connected to another Chemstation.


Yeah... We have several occasional users with varying degrees of computer knowledge, so a lot of times one person would disable the house network to get Chemstation to load and the next person wouldn't be able to use network printers.

My workaround was to write a batch file (just a text file saved with the .bat extension) that briefly disables the other network card while loading chemstation. I saved a shortcut to batch file on the desktop.

FYI:

netsh interface set interface "Ethernet 1" disable
timeout 15
cd C:\msdchem\MSexe\
start mstop.exe 1 ,envtop, envtop.mac
timeout 60
netsh interface set interface "Ethernet 1" enable


I might have to give that a try. Not afraid of batch files like some around the lab are. I use one with a simple XCOPY command to do daily data backups across the network. Starting out using RTE-A, I had a lot of experience with batch files lol.
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
Upgrading to the LAN card on the 6890 is worth the trouble. Having no GPIB card that could work; I was having no luck controlling one for Chemstation D running in WinXP on an HP SFF PC. The 6890 still runs the injector via HPIB and all works well.

That said, I have a 6890N/5973N with the fast scan electronics and Chemstation E. It just works as a LAN device and I can use a newer faster PC to run it all. Just running it with WinXP Pro. I have the lab network isolated from the world.
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