Alternatives to chart plotters

Discussions about GC and other "gas phase" separation techniques.

9 posts Page 1 of 1
Hi all,

Just wondering what proportion of people on this forum are still using chart plotters with physical rolls of paper for their chromatograms (maybe even cutting out the peaks with scissors and weighing them??)
Is there a better way to capture the output and display it than using rolls and rolls of paper and pens that dry out between separations?
Thanks,
LR
These things were on their way out in the late 1970s !!!
Back when I was an undergrad student in the mid-2000s, we had an HP 3396 integrator on our 5890 FID(the instrument also had a mass spec, which was computer controlled). They still use it that way, and I've tried to talk them into running both off the computer.

In any case, integrators like the 3396 are sort of the semi-modern equivalent of a strip chart recorder since they save you from manually integrating.

Computers are ubiquitous and inexpensive now, and even with a simple analog output it's easy to use something like your computers audio line in to record the signal. There are programs that can translate this into a chromatogram. I THINK PeakSimple, which is free, can be used in that mode(although admittedly I never have-I've always used it to control a compatible GC).

You have to admit that there's a lot of appeal to being able to use a $300 laptop with $10 worth of components to connect it to your GC and never have to deal with paper rolls, pens, or anything else again.
If it is and older instrument then Peak Simple would probably interface with it using a 9 pin RS232 Serial port and cable. That would make it easy to replace the plotter.

Ben,

On the 5971 with the FID, that would be so simple to do, just make a method that doesn't include the MS and set the detector to FID. I used to do that on one we had, it had the MS and also a FID/PID combo so I could do GRO/BTEX on it as well as normal MS work. Just load the method for the detector you want. You could probably even keep the integrator connected and then show them the difference as you collect data both ways at the same time.
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
James_Ball wrote:
If it is and older instrument then Peak Simple would probably interface with it using a 9 pin RS232 Serial port and cable. That would make it easy to replace the plotter.

Ben,

On the 5971 with the FID, that would be so simple to do, just make a method that doesn't include the MS and set the detector to FID. I used to do that on one we had, it had the MS and also a FID/PID combo so I could do GRO/BTEX on it as well as normal MS work. Just load the method for the detector you want. You could probably even keep the integrator connected and then show them the difference as you collect data both ways at the same time.


James,

I've talked to them, as I'm convinced it's possible to collect data through the computer. Bear in mind that it's still sitting exactly where the HP engineer initially set it up in 1991 or so, and they are reluctant to try anything with it(despite the fact that apparently it's getting even harder to find ink cartridges for the 3396).

Tera Technologies out of Louisville has apparently also told them that it's not possible, although I will avoid stating my opinion of their advice on an open forum.

I do know that I service a pair of 5890s, one with the same 5971/FID compo, and the other with an NPD and FPD. All run happily on a single single computer with a mass of HPIB cables coming out(2x7376 control boxes+GCs+5971). A single MSD Chemstation install can support 4 instruments, so I set up each detector as a separate instrument. It's just a matter of clicking on the "top" icon for the detector you want to use, and everything falls into place.
benhutcherson wrote:
James_Ball wrote:
If it is and older instrument then Peak Simple would probably interface with it using a 9 pin RS232 Serial port and cable. That would make it easy to replace the plotter.

Ben,

On the 5971 with the FID, that would be so simple to do, just make a method that doesn't include the MS and set the detector to FID. I used to do that on one we had, it had the MS and also a FID/PID combo so I could do GRO/BTEX on it as well as normal MS work. Just load the method for the detector you want. You could probably even keep the integrator connected and then show them the difference as you collect data both ways at the same time.


James,

I've talked to them, as I'm convinced it's possible to collect data through the computer. Bear in mind that it's still sitting exactly where the HP engineer initially set it up in 1991 or so, and they are reluctant to try anything with it(despite the fact that apparently it's getting even harder to find ink cartridges for the 3396).

Tera Technologies out of Louisville has apparently also told them that it's not possible, although I will avoid stating my opinion of their advice on an open forum.

I do know that I service a pair of 5890s, one with the same 5971/FID compo, and the other with an NPD and FPD. All run happily on a single single computer with a mass of HPIB cables coming out(2x7376 control boxes+GCs+5971). A single MSD Chemstation install can support 4 instruments, so I set up each detector as a separate instrument. It's just a matter of clicking on the "top" icon for the detector you want to use, and everything falls into place.


Actually you can run 4 GCs with two detectors each on one computer with MSDChemstation. We did it for years. We had the WinNT4 version running 4 GCs with 8 ECDs all running at the same time. We only got rid of that setup because we were afraid the PentiumII 400 computer would finally die and we would be dead in the water trying to replace it. Those were running off of LAN so there could be a limit if on HPIB but I don't think so. The maximum MS you can have on one computer I believe is 2, since there is so much data being transferred.

I'm not certain but you may even be able to acquire data from the MS and the FID at the same time. I know when they introduced the FTIR detector back near 1990 you could acquire data from that and the MS at the same time, similar to doing FID/PID, but it never really caught on.
The past is there to guide us into the future, not to dwell in.
Enjoy:
https://www.unichrom.com/matrix-adce.shtml

Especially - if you have Arduino or something were you can get ASCII text stream:
https://www.unichrom.com/simple/simplee.shtml
The driver just eats text stream like
0.1 101
0.12 202
0.14 10000 <--- look, this is a peak
0.16 8120
0.18 999999 <-- that's the start marker, go on
Here's a nice little plug and play option for older instruments, and can also integrate remote start as long as the instrument you're using has some sort of signal for that.

https://www.srigc.com/home/product_deta ... ata-system

I've fought wars with PeakSimple, but it really is one of the easiest to use data acquisition packages out there and SRI doesn't charge for updates.
Came across these two references which sounds very promising.

A low-cost, open-source digital stripchart recorder for chromatographic detectors using a Raspberry Pi
Journal of Chromatography A, Volume 1603, 11 October 2019, Pages 396-400
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.chroma.2019.03.070

An Inexpensive, Open-Source USB Arduino Data Acquisition Device for Chemical Instrumentation
J. Chem. Educ. 2016, 93, 7, 1316–1319
https://doi.org/10.1021/acs.jchemed.6b00262
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