Top-rated data systems

[Jackus]

In case you have just those 2 old GCs, you can consider our Clarity software as an user friendly and cost effective solution.
.....

Yes, I can recommend this solution. It is cheaper and vendor response is good.

(advertisement is not paid, we have to discuss it, Mr. Vins )

[Alfred88]

Dear chromatographers:
The cost for Chromeleon (Dionex) with one Class 1 Timebase is $3700 (one license). I don't know the cost of Clarity (I found one distributor in Gardena, CA), but I strongly feel that Chromeleon is superior, low cost, and powerful.
In fact, you can design your interface, or modify the pre-designed interface as you wish. You can add/remove controls; each control has properties and functions like in Visual Basic 6.

Disclaimer: I don't work for Dionex, and don't work in sales.

[Csaba]

....easy choice upgrade chemstation to it's latest revision, ...

The catch is that Agilent does NOT support old 5890 GC! Not even some of the older 6890! But maybe ChemStation B04 works anyhow. Does anyone know?

[JGK]

Also Waters will be rolling out Empower 3 towards the end of 2010

[mcbart]

[quote="skunked_once"]The latest issue of Scientific Computing magazine listed the top reader's choice software programs. Reader's favorite chromatography systems were Atlas CDS (Thermo Fisher Scientific), Empower 2 (Waters), EZChrom Elite (Agilent), and Chromelion (Dionex). [/quote]

Do you trust this list? I can't realize as Chemstation - probabily the most popular CDS isn't rated. Being popular doesn't mean beding people's choice but his is a strange list..

[Dividination]

Wow this one got dug up out of the dirt (2008?), but since it came up here my two cents. I have access and use Empower, ChemStation, and Chromeleon – both stand alone and client server. I’ve also had opportunity to review data from a group that uses TotalChrom.

ChemStation: Nice as a standalone, but has no client server options (well not a real one – OpenLab is a Joke). Its best feature really it that it controls Agilent equipment. Processing is OK, data management is very basic (simple flat file system). In the end it makes a very nice standalone chromatography system, so overall would be my #2 choice.

Chromeleon: There is only one positive - instrument control. Because Dionex reverse engineers instrument drivers they can support a lot of instruments. That said instrument control is not user friendly (uses these text script files - painful). Processing couldn’t be harder, and the much touted reporting options never work they way they’re advertised. It does have a C/S option, but its scalability is limited. Overall it has some uses (e.g., Dionex equipment, mishmash many types of instruments together), but otherwise I’d stay away - far away.

TotalChrom: What happened to this software? It used to be a decent package, but no more. It can’t even perform some basic calculations. Anyway from what I’ve seen it’s very limited in every category. Might even be worse than Chromeleon (hard as that is for me to believe).

Empower: Excellent data management, scalability, usability – great for large and small scale deployments. Has some limitations on the number of instruments supported, but not many (FYI – it does control of the all Agilent GCs). And Waters has opened up the drivers a lot, so there’s new instrument support all the time. In fact Waters and Agilent will soon start using shared instrument drivers (e.g., Agilent’s RC.Net drivers). Same drivers will have the same functionality - regardless if it’s on ChemStation, Empower, or god forbid Chromeleon. Empower has the best processing options I’ve seen, and really great reporting options as well. Great data management, scalability, and customization options. In regulated environments, it’s the only way to go. Overall my #1 choice.

Anyway can’t speak to the others out there, so who knows maybe one would beat Empower? It would be surprising though. Still remember the choice will depend on your needs. So why Empower may be the best overall choice, it may not work for you. It will really depend on what equipment you use, what results you need, are you working in a regulated environment (security, compliance, validation), and of course lets not forget how much you can actually spend. Only buy what you need - just make sure it does what you need.

[Csaba]

Dividination,
Chromeleon has excellent instrument control – What are you doing? Or not doing?
Processing in Chromeleon is excellent! – What are you doing? Or not doing? Ordinary chemists praise it all day long!
The reporting tool in Chromeleon is excellent! – What are you doing? Or not doing?
With Oracle as database, the sky is the limit for scalability. If your company has a global Oracle license, then you can set up a Chromeleon CDS for a peanut. Compare that with the bad Waters support for the high maintain cost they charge! Actually, do you really know anything about Chromeleon?

I used Empower 10 years ago and supported 10 LC among chemists. The chemists never could understand how Empower worked. They don’t want to go back to Empower.

I have not tried to modify the reporting tool in Empower, but I know that part of the company where I work that are using Empower, they are not able to set up the reports correctly (after using Empower for more than 15 years).

The code sharing between Agilent and Waters “soon readyâ€

[Dividination]

Look I know everyone has their favorites, and I don’t mean to step on anyone’s toes. But I do work with all of these systems frequently (well except TotalChrom), and I’m just calling it like I see it. It’s kind of like with computers: some people like Apple, and some people know how to use computers (yea I know, bad joke - don’t want to start another complaint). My point though is buy the system that controls your instruments, and meets your user and regulatory needs. In my organization that’s Empower, but others may disagree.

Also on code sharing, yea I agree it has been lacking for a long time. But let’s face it reverse engineering the drivers wasn’t the best way to go either. Finally though (this summer) Agilent & Waters (others?) are moving forward with shared drivers for their instruments. And not just for ChemStation and Empower, but Chromeleon too. If you ask me, they’ve been overdue for far too long.

[abell1234]

Csaba, I couldnt agree more. Chromeleon in my view is one of the most powerful and versitile CDS's out there. I have been using it for over 10 years and I'm still finding new functions,solutions to complex calculations, reporting summaries etc using Chromeleon, and the query function for trending data from different sequences/sample sets is excellent.Chemstation has its capabilities but is very basic, and processing a injections with chemstore in the background is a nightmare. Empower 2 is good , but getting the custom fields to calculate results other than % rsd,% recovery, or std verification can be a struggle. And checking these functons is another job in itself.At least it gets you away from running to excel I suppose !

[varossf]

Again the 5890 control discussion. As I said before, the latest ChemStation controls the 5890 Series II as well as EZChrom and OpenLAD ICM. You might need to look at the IEEE cards (USB-IEEE) or go to RS232.

Can't say anything on other products, but I know that control of the Agilent hardware (6890, 7890, 1200, 1200 RRLC, 1290) is with some software limited or lagging behind.

[Dividination]

We have some 5890s connected to ChemStation (actually maybe had, it’s been a while since I was in that Lab). Don’t have any on Empower, but according to the manual it supports “Agilent 5890 Series II & Series II Plus Gas Chromatographsâ€

[Shredmasterzero]

First off, I have been reading this forum for a couple years now and I would like to thank all of you for sharing your knowledge. I have learned a lot here.

To the topic of data systems...does anyone know of an open source data system that works on linux?

[Alex Buske]

[quote="Dividination"]
To be honest I’m not sure how you get out of checking the calculations in Chromeleon though. We have to check those too. I’m just not a big fan of their so called “spreadsheetâ€

[Ron]

Don't put too much faith in these Reader's Choice lists, they are not usually the result of a scientific survey. In many cases the ranking is based on requests for information from bingo cards responding to advertisements. If Agilent doesn't advertise or pay to be included on the bingo card, they don't show up in the results. In many cases there are only a few hundred (or less) replies, so the results don't reflect real world usage.

[Dividination]

Thats the second time you claim that Chromeleon isn't calculating properly. As this is in clear contrast to the experience of other users and to documented CSV results I believe this is training issue with you.

Never said that, just said you have to check the calculations - or else how do you know the formula was setup correctly? As for the Chromeleon "spreadsheet", it's really not that great. But hey maybe it’s my lack of training, not just my personal opinion.

Seriously though I'm not out to bash any one system in particular - they will all have good and bad features. Just having used a variety of systems, that's the conclusion I've come to. Sorry if you disagree, but then again guess that’s the point of the discussion.[/quote]