ISA slot work-arounds... Anybody have success?

[carl.nott]

I run HP GC/MSs at a small environmental lab. A large number of our systems are using old ISA slot HPIB cards (82335 and 82341) which means that when a computer goes down I end up using one of my dwindling stock of new ISA motherboards to get the system back up.

I've looked into various solutions to this issue but none have proven successful. I have used Sun's VirtualBox software to install an emulation of Win98 on to a WinXP box and installed our old ChemStation software in the virtual Win98 install, which works fine. However when it comes to addressing the ISA interface I have had no luck. I have tried out the ARS ISA slot USB adapter but have not been able to get it to function with an 82335 card (have not tried the 82341). I suspect this is due to the 82335's odd 'no driver' status. I think that the VISA/driver install process for the 82341 would result in the ARS product not working as well but, honestly, I need a solution that will work for both cards.

I know that there are GPIB-USB connectors but I am hesitant to invest in one as I suspect HP/Agilent's odd driverless/VISA communication system would not work with one.

So I am curious if anyone out there has successfully found a solution to this problem.

[aaronx88]

Hi,

I'm currently looking into the same problem and I found that you can purchase new M/B with ISA slots. Kindly take a look.

http://www.adek.com/ATX-motherboards.htm

On the other hand, I'm wondering if anyone has a backup of the installation disk for ChemStation software version A.02.0x, A.05.0x, A.06.0x??

If anyone has them, kindly email them to me at aaronx88@gmail.com

Thanks.

Aaron

[Consumer Products Guy]

I'm really not a computer guy, but we have used 82335 boards up to Pentium 1 computers, and our newer Pentium 2, 3, and 4 use either 82341 or 82350 boards. Are you stating that the 82341 physically doesn't fit more-modern computers (I don't know)?

[Jackus]

...On the other hand, I'm wondering if anyone has a backup of the installation disk for ChemStation software version A.02.0x, A.05.0x, A.06.0x?? ...

I can upload A. 04.01 and probably A.05.02 (not sure, version from 1997).
Wait a minute I'll update with appropriate link.

Edit:

http://rapidshare.com/files/392422712/H ... 1.rar.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/392425116/H ... 2.rar.html


http://rapidshare.com/files/392426435/H ... 1.rar.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/392428605/H ... 2.rar.html

Both versions are packed with Winrar, CD image can be opened with Daemon tools (.mdf).

[Pinko!]

I am a computer technician (not a chemist) for an environmental lab. I am trying to assist some of the lab techs troubleshoot a problem. Has anyone had any issues with the Adek (or any other) manufacturer P4 motherboards with ISA slots on them? We are running an Adek currently with Win XP installed but we are having some issues with the instrument. It may be unrelated to the ISA I was just wondering if anyone had any experiences they'd like to share.

Thank you.

[PhotonicGuy]

I always used adapters and they worked fine for different types of slots including ISA. I don’t know why in this case they don’t. I am very interested in the solution too, if someone has it…

[carl.nott]

I am a computer technician (not a chemist) for an environmental lab. I am trying to assist some of the lab techs troubleshoot a problem. Has anyone had any issues with the Adek (or any other) manufacturer P4 motherboards with ISA slots on them? We are running an Adek currently with Win XP installed but we are having some issues with the instrument. It may be unrelated to the ISA I was just wondering if anyone had any experiences they'd like to share.

I have not used any Adek boards. Have had success with:

DFI CA64-TC 370 VIA 694T
Soyo SY-7VMA-B

I bought 5 of the DFI boards and should have bought a dozen. <sigh>

These are socket 370 boards though as I was under the impression (since then I'm not convinced that is correct) that a CPU over 500mhz would not work with some very early versions of Chemstation. In general I prefer Win98 over XP if I'm dealing with ISA slot HPIB cards, though getting 98 on a domain was interesting.

[Pinko!]

I have not used any Adek boards. Have had success with:

DFI CA64-TC 370 VIA 694T
Soyo SY-7VMA-B

I bought 5 of the DFI boards and should have bought a dozen. <sigh>

These are socket 370 boards though as I was under the impression (since then I'm not convinced that is correct) that a CPU over 500mhz would not work with some very early versions of Chemstation. In general I prefer Win98 over XP if I'm dealing with ISA slot HPIB cards, though getting 98 on a domain was interesting. [/quote]

Right now we are attempting to modernize the PC's connected to several different instruments. The Adek PC has an ISA slot that seems to work well but I don't have an HPIB interface in the slot. There is some problem with the ICP-MS that interfaces with the ADEK PC and if it is related to the ISA functionality I will update this forum. But at this point I don't think the PC is the problem. As for the HPIB interface, I have found PCI HPIB boards and we will be testing those hopefully very soon. I will keep you all posted!

[Pinko!]

Sorry, I miss quoted that last post.

[carl.nott]

A bit more data: I've had mixed results with HPIB cards (ISA and PCI) in general running under WinXP. I have had issues with IRQ conflicts with various motherboards which have been difficult or impossible to resolve.

I mean, it depends on the application and all, but I've had good results with keeping to Win98 as, in general, the boards I've had available with ISA slots struggle to provide the RAM and CPU power to make XP remotely fast. Plus corporate IT leaves my 98 boxes alone when they're pushing massive anti-virus / theme / whatever updates, hehe.

[Pinko!]

That's the problem we are having. The lab manager wants data generated by the instruments to be stored on the network. This is a good idea. But it creates problems specifically because we require AV software on any system connected to the network. We also require a PC to be joined to the domain to access the internet, which necessitates OS upgrades. I understand that old hardware works best with old OS's. But IT cannot support old systems indefinitely. There are solutions out there however. The folks at http://www.5890.com have been very helpful. I was quoted a PCI HPIB board for about $650 that should be compatible with XP. Now, provided the PCI interface doesn't go the way of the dodo we should be able meet everyone's needs for several more years. I hope this works. Hopefully we don't run into any problems with the PCI HPIB boards.

[carl.nott]

I have not had any issues with network-hopping Win98 viruses (I assume because, well, it's Win98... heh). We don't allow access to the internet for instrument computers so that is not an issue. If you want to connect a Win98 box to a domain...

Open My Computer
Open Control Panel
Open Network
Add File and Print Sharing for Microsoft Networks
Click Identification Tab, input 'domain name' and Workstation ID
Select Client for Microsoft Networks
Click Properties
Enable Log on to Windows NT domain, 'domain name'
Select File and Print Sharing for Microsoft Networks
Select Primary Login- Client for Microsoft Networks
Restart Computer and Log In using 'domain name' network ID and password. You will now have access to the 'domain name' domain.

Works a lot better than connecting XPHome to a domain (which is quite annoying).

I share the folder on the Win98 box, it's visible through the domain, and my backup computer handles the backing up. I suppose I could point Chemstation to saving everything on the network to begin with though, but I like having everything in two spots (three, I guess, as there is a backup for the backup).

I know we can't support ancient systems forever, but I figure as the instruments wear out they (and their computers/interfaces) will phase out. In my experience getting the old systems to do what we want them to do is easier than trying to use 'modern' (heh) systems to control the old instruments.

[Pinko!]

I know how to add 98 to a domain but it doesn't appropriately apply group policies. It just wasn't designed for it. The biggest issue with non-NT operating systems (this is from a network admin perspective) is that when an instrument connected PC dies, it can be very difficult to replace it. Where, for instance, are you going to find drivers for a core2 duo PC running Win98? We don't have a stockpile of old PC's we can draw from to allow us to recover from that sort of failure. That is where an ADEK system is nice. We have a LECO ICP-MS connected to an ADEK PC with an ISA slot because LECO doesn't make that instrument anymore. Therefore trying to find an PCI interface board is ridiculous. The only option was to find an ISA solution. But I would have never tried to run Win98 on the system unless that was the only option due to software compatibility issues. There are options out there. I know the 5890 GC's are compatible with current versions of HP ChemStation and ChromPerfect. In fact, CXhromPerfect will be supporting Win7 shortly if not already. As for the PCI HPIB compatibility, I haven't tested it yet. I will post those results when I get them.

Cheers!

[carl.nott]

Yeah, I've been really surprised with the portability of Chemstation A.09.03. Have run it on Win98, Win2k and WinXP (even swapped Methods and Data between them!) and have used it for 5890 and 6890 GC/FID, GC/FID/PID, GC/ECD. Cheers on getting 98 on a domain, that was fun the first time.

I've looked into legacy-type mobo suppliers but so far have been able to use new/unused mobos (Newegg actually has a DFI socket 370 for sale right now). My typical setup is socket 370 mobo, PIII/500mhz, 512mb PC133 RAM, AGP vid card, PCI ethernet card. I try to avoid onboard video and ethernet because of the driver issues with Win98 and I choose vid and network cards running old-school chips which have Win98 drivers. My choice of Win98 is also heavily influenced by the 4 82335 HPIB ISA cards that we have and which (from what I understand) can't work on WinNT and above (but which work fine in Win98, even pushing 6890s in A.09.03).

We've also moved to a 'this is an instrument computer, it runs instrument(s), the finalized data is copied to the server, that is a workstation computer, it retrieves the data from the server and imports it into the LIMS' configuration so I don't have to deal with installing Office 98 or trying to get data parsing programs or database stuff to work on the computer pushing the instrument. That helps reduce the need for a higher end OS/computer for the instrument too (and, honestly, with a 500mhz PIII and 512mb RAM Win98 kind of flies).

I have installed Sun's VirtualBox and gotten a Win98 instance up and installed Chemstation G1034C in it on a WinXP box (we have 2 Smart Card I GC/MS's) but when I tried to use an ARSTech ISA to USB card to tie in an 82335 or an 82341 I did not have any luck and, due to the, uh, complexity it's difficult to troubleshoot exactly where it's not working.

Interested in hearing how you do with the PCI HPIB card.

[carl.nott]

Where, for instance, are you going to find drivers for a core2 duo PC running Win98? We don't have a stockpile of old PC's we can draw from to allow us to recover from that sort of failure. That is where an ADEK system is nice. We have a LECO ICP-MS connected to an ADEK PC with an ISA slot because LECO doesn't make that instrument anymore.

Stumbled upon something while checking on a different issue. I have a .pdf called 'HPIB Card Overview' that I downloaded from Artisan Scientific which appears to be a duplicate of an Agilent technical document that says it was last updated 11/23/98. While reading it I noticed something that might explain your issue with the Adek system:

'As noted, the 82341D is not supported on WinNT until NT 5.0 comes out. Note that none of the HPIB cards works [sic] on WinNT on a dual-CPU system. This needs to be corrected but it is hard to say when that will be.'

So I dunno if this is applicable as I'm not sure you're using a multi-core mobo and I dunno if not working on WinNT would mean it wouldn't work in XP, or if the problem was fixed (in the last, uh, 12 years). But might help you out.